With income comprising a huge chunk of the wealth building equation, I’m constantly on the hunt for ways us gals can boost our earnings.
If your career pays just enough to cover your basic necessities, you love what you do, and couldn’t care less about increasing your wages, then you have my blessing. Keep doing what you’ve been doing.
But a 2011 Gallup survey, revealed a measly 30% of U.S. workers like their jobs. If you harbor lukewarm feelings or downright hatred toward your job, you might as well bring home a fat paycheck to compensate for your misery.
You have no idea how hard it is to find a non-bikini clad image of a woman performing "men's" work.
Recently, a friend sent me an article about how North Dakota’s unemployment rate, the lowest in the United States, dipped below 3%.
While the sputtering economy remains top of mind for most Americans, the four year old oil boom in North Dakota continues to flood the state with cash.
According to CNN Money, the average annual salary of an oil rig worker and others in the field approached $100K.
As you might have of guessed, petroleum and other STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) fields are overrun with men.
For some reason, women shy away from STEM professions. Additionally, we shun honest, good paying, blue collar work.
Why aren’t there more female plumbers, carpenters, electricians, fire fighters, construction workers, garbage collectors, and mechanics?
As much as I want to command you to go forth and compete with the boys, I have my reservations.
When it comes to raw intelligence and creativity, I’m convinced–research be damned–that the sexes are equal.
On the other hand, for many women (myself included), the conditions in which the aforementioned professionals work are, quite frankly, undesirable.
I don’t mean to sound like a wimp, but traditional “men’s work” is . . .
PHYSICALLY DEMANDING
Men and women are not equal. It’s impossible for a man to carry and conceive a child. And no one argues otherwise.
I’d back down from a bar fight with even the scrawniest guy, because, well, he could probably kick my butt. After all, no one argues that men are stronger and faster than women.
Absent a hurricane, during the wee hours of every weekday morning, my dad slung the contents of one trash can after another onto the back of a dump truck.
UPS package delivery drivers routinely lift and lower packages weighing up to 70 pounds (~32 kilograms). If you’ve ever witnessed one of these guys rip through your neighborhood, then you know they carry out their responsibilities at lightning speed.
I workout and all, but you should see what scary changes my body goes through to schlep a 50-pound suitcase down a flight of stairs.
DIRTY
Do you know what my father, a garbageman, smelled like when he walked through the door?
You guessed it. Garbage.
Personally, I’m not super eager to chip my finger nails, sweat out my hairdo, or catch offensive odors in my hair and pores during a standard day’s work.
MASCULINE
If you work with a bunch of guys, more likely than not, office chitchat will surround topics guys care about.
Of course, women and men engage in thoughtful conversation every single day. However, I’m sure men, in general, find certain issues more arousing than others.
For instance, I’ve never heard a woman drone on about the high school career, college career, Wonderlic test scores, or forty-yard dash times of each starting player of her favorite professional football (not soccer) team.
Although I’ve encountered my fair share of female sports fans, most women really just don’t give that much of a crap about sports to talk about them more than a few minutes a week.
In order to gain access to the most lucrative employment, I believe women should expand their options. However, I haven’t totally convinced myself that we’ll be successful in all male dominated professions.
What workplace challenges, if any, do you think women who work in jobs historically held by men face?
Shawanda Greene is a free thinking, frugal gal whose only vices are boxed wine, lip balm and money grubbing. You can find more of Shawanda's musings at 
I’m writing this sitting in the office of an industrial shop.
We have to lift all weights of things in the shop, from 1 ounce to 10 tons. We expect our staff to lift what they comfortably can, and to use an appropriate lifting aid for heavier things. Lifting beyond what one comfortably can lift is a safety violation.
So physical strength really isn’t an issue, although the job’s quite physical. I do it, and I’m a woman nearing 60 (admittedly, I avoid working off a ladder, I don’t trust my balance). A machinist friend of mine is a tiny woman, probably 97 pounds dripping wet.
We don’t tolerate a locker room atmosphere. As in “You’re fired” don’t tolerate. People openly tell each other how much they appreciate their presence.
Yes, the work’s dirty at times. So is a lot of cleaning, housework, child care, and nursing, traditional pink collar jobs that don’t pay nearly as well. We have a shower on the premises. The dirt washes off. Keeping my nails reasonable length is the only concession I really make to my job.
Contrary to stereotypes, factories haven’t been dirty dark places for many decades. Industrial Hygiene promotes safety and efficiency, both of which we’re big on. Ours has lots of (tasteful) jokes, cartoons and decorations on the walls and is a colorful, happy place.
I’ll tell you why women shun these male dominated jobs. They are dirty, smelly, and the uneducated men you are surrounded by are going to give you a hard time. I worked in a male dominated field and I found out the hard way that women are not as strong as men and never will be. I was expected to carry my weight though and had to do a lot of heavy lifting and use power tools and carry a heavy toolbox all over the plant. I had to listen to the men at lunch talk about things men like to discuss which is not just sports but about womens bodies and dirty jokes. I came home smelling like tar and my kids would say (pee you) when I hugged them before showering. I had 2 kids and my ex didn’t pay support so I felt I had to work hard to have insurance and keep a roof over their heads. I worked 12 hour shifts and missed out on a lot of their growing up because I was at work. Now I am 52 and disabled by Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Arthritis of the joints. I wore out my joints in my hands so bad I need surgery. If I had to do it over again I would have went on Welfare and went to school to get a degree. Sure we may have had to live in welfare housing for a while but at least I wouid have been home more to spend time with my kids. Now I am a cripple and live with chronic pain and have nothing to show for all those years of hard work. I also have PTSD from being attacked by a coworker and he tried to sexually assault me but I kicked him hard and got away. I never went back to work after that. That was the last straw. I live on disability pay and barely get by. I could go to school but my pain is so bad why bother. I wish I had done things differently but I didn’t want my kids to go without and live in a project.
When I was in college and working as a litigation assistant, I discovered that my wimpy little brother was making more than double what I was making working as a construction worker. I promptly joined the union and put on a hard hat because earning a good wage was a lot more important than keeping my nails pristine. I sometimes worked 60 hour weeks, was usually covered in bruises and was once so filthy my foreman took a picture of me because he’d never seen anyone so dirty in his life. But in addition to the bigger paycheck, I also found out I was much physically stronger than I had realized and loved physical work — there were very few things I couldn’t do on the job and a few I could do that others couldn’t because I was smaller or more limber. Yes, most men are stronger than most women, no question. You know what I found out on the industrial construction site? 98% of non-sports physical jobs don’t require the full extent of your strength. The guys at first didn’t know how to treat me (I also work as an actress and model and am more the type they’re used to whistling at). But they soon adapted and I came to love them and they appreciated my hard work ethic and spirit. I was allowed to even work part-time, not something that was usually allowed. Those couple of years are some of my favorite work memories. And the lunchtime discussions were different but fun.
My problem with this post isn’t the expression of individual preferences/experiences (after all, that’s what I just did above) — it’s that it’s written to use the writer’s individual experience & preference to generalize about the rest of her gender. She further speculates about professions she hasn’t worked in. If she wouldn’t care to work in those jobs, fine — I know there are a lot of other women who feel the same way. But there are A LOT of women who want and can do those jobs. If they aren’t capable, they shouldn’t be kept in those jobs but they should at least be given the chance to prove themselves. And other women writing articles about how they wouldn’t personally be good at those jobs so other women probably wouldn’t either isn’t helping us make a level playing field.
Writer, post all you want about yourself. But as another woman, please leave me out of your speculative generalizations. You may say that your statements have qualifications such as “some” or you say it’s about your preferences but your title says “women.” Because I’m a woman and my preference and experience could not be more different than yours.
This is a remarkably stupid article. The best paying and most numerous jobs currently greatly dominated by men include a very large number of white collar jobs…with no physical labor required. Such as president of the United States, congressional representative, senator, mayor, state governor, heads of federal agencies, cia and fbi analysts, University professors in the sciences, engineers, stock brokers, financial analysts, venture capitalists, bankers, airline pilots, truck drivers, bus drivers, computer software developers, IT specialists, salesmen, trial lawyers, advertising executives, industrial chemists, surgeons, and pharmacists. Etc.
Perhaps your disdain for “dirty male” professions contributes to why you’re “fabulously broke?” Just a thought from a fabulously educated, clean, and nicely dressed FEMALE Engineer who pays all her bills and then saves some money for a rainy day! 😉 Imagine that!
This post is offensive on so many levels. Not only to woman but also to men. All men talk about is sports and their glory days and anything else doesn’t interest them? Give me a break.
I am prior Military. I have served two tours in the Middle East. I am now an aircraft mechanic working for the Government. 1. I have never once thought about how my nails might chip or my hair falling out of place {try having hydraulic fluid dumped on it}, and 2. I probably work in one of the most dominated MALE career fields, both Military and now…. but you know what? I wouldn’t ask for it any other way.
Those men out there are like family to me. Some of them like fathers to me and others like brothers to me. 99% of them are married and have children. I am married and my Husband and I have children. We don’t sit around and talk about [Quote]high school career, college career, Wonderlic test scores, or forty-yard
dash times of each starting player of her favorite professional
football (not soccer) team.[/Quote]. We talk about our families. What we had for dinner the night before. What’s been happening on TV {newest movies, shows… etc}. We talk about the kids and of course we talk about airplanes and work.
As far as the ‘Physically Demanding’, yes, physically, men are stronger but I had to laugh a bit with your examples… Trash bins and UPS drivers. Try marching in the scorching heat with 50lbs of gear and almost 70lbs in a ruck-sac. Try working on an airplane in the Middle Eastern dessert heat {130 degree’s} with 50lbs of gear on, handling another 50+ lbs of aircraft equipment/parts. You know what though? Out there or here, at work, we never look at it as whose weaker or whose stronger. ALL of us {not just the men, but us ladies also} are expected to do the job and do it right the first time.
And although my job may be ‘dirty, demanding and masculine’… I help keep planes flying. I help fix planes and get planes going so our troops get to where they need to go safely. I am proud of what I do and would rather work with the ‘dirty, demanding and masculine’ crazy bunch of MEN I work with now then an office full of gossipy, judgmental, catty women {yes… I have been there done that too… before I joined the Military}.
also.. you have an attitude problem. your abrasive responses back to anyone who dares disagree with you have completely turned me off this site. have fun with your plummeting readership.
this article is lame. but seeing as everyone else has covered that, i’ll simply ask you to fix this:
As you might have of guessed
seriously. want work in a female dominated profession like writing? learn to write.
I think the point that you’re missing from the majority of replies here, is that while it is your opinion, it isn’t backed by anything that is factual. Furthermore, with great power comes great responsibility, and even if you’re only getting two page hits a day, you put it on the internet and it is out there forever for everyone to read, including impressionable young girls.
If I were to form an opinion about you based on your “About the Author” description, I could sum it up in two words – gold digger. But hey, you can’t hate on me because that is my opinion.
I am one of five women that work for a heavy duty machine company as the controller. My opinions are valued far more than they ever were when I was in positions traditionally held by women. I can hold my own in conversation with the guys, and when there is heavy lifting to be done, I am the first to jump in and try my hardest!
I live in a small community which is dominated by the coal and oil industries, and 50% of the positions are held by women. I hope that you do some further research into this topic, because in my opinion, your opinion is grossly misinformed.
I think I can see why you are “broke.” You have a very limited number of things you are willing to do for work. You don’t want to sweat or break a nail? No offense, but you don’t sound terribly hard working. And women “sweated” and “broke their nails” for generations when most of the country was agricultural.
Amen. AMEN.
This post would be a lot easier to swallow if it didn’t contain the sentence “Personally, I’m not super eager to chip my finger nails, sweat out my hairdo, or catch offensive odors in my hair and pores during a standard day’s work.” Sigh/gasp/gulp. Lost me there – & most of your credibility as a thoughtful female.
There are so many negative comments on this post I only have time to respond to a few. Congratulations. You’re one of the lucky winners. I maintain that I PERSONALLY would rather not engage in “dirty,” manual labor. As a thoughtful, independent thinker, I PERSONALLY, couldn’t give two rat turds about your opinions of my credibility. I support women’s rights, and I’m thankful we have more choices than ever before. But I also evaluate the positives and negatives of evolving gender roles and expectations in our western society. That’s what thinkers do. You should try it some time.
Oh my gosh, I feel so honored! THANK YOU, VERY BUSY BLOGGER!
You of course are welcome to your opinions about dirtiness & manual labor; I can’t claim to be breaking nails at my social media job, either. But lest you pat yourself on the back any harder, let’s be clear: This post could not have been any bitchier, more shallow, or LESS “thoughtful.” I think you’ve confused “independent thinker” with “1950s housewife-esque lines of thinking.” Let’s talk about evolving gender roles & expectations when you have any concept of what that actually means, OK? OK.
Done here.
You’re welcome.
I’m not sure how many of my articles you’ve read. Hopefully you read more than just one (or even a couple) before you drew conclusions about how I feel about women. Intellectually lazy people have a tendency to misjudge others since they rely heavily on limited information.
“Done here.” *Breathes sigh of relief*
I’m a woman who recently earned my Master’s in Urban and Regional Planning. My graduate school program was 80% men. Being one of the only women allowed me to offer insight and perspective that many of my colleagues lacked, and this is still the case in my career. In my opinion, all industries benefit from having diverse, educated professionals working together. Men and women, of all ages, of all cultures, bringing ideas together for progress.
If women avoided these important fields our society would be missing out on the influence of countless great minds — scientists, doctors, engineers, and researchers to name a few — who have contributed greatly to our world.
Shame on you for suggesting intelligent women keep their talents to themselves to avoid breaking a nail.
You’re a f*cking moron. That is all.
Just have to chime in as another woman in a STEM field (chemical engineering in the oil industry) who LOVES her job! I currently see more and more young women coming to work in my field, but I’ve also had the experience of working in an office where I was the only female. At the time I was about 15 years younger than anyone else in the office as well.
A) I had zero problem with water cooler chit chat (it’s rather reductive to say that men *only* talk about sports) and
B) Even if I didn’t have much to talk about with my male coworkers, it wouldn’t cause me to hate my job. I go to work to stimulate my brain and make money, not to hang out with friends. That’s something I do in my off hours because I’m a professional.
Overall though, I loved the work environment at that company because it was full of good, smart, hard working *people* regardless of gender. My experience in my STEM field is that the pay is good, the hours are reasonable, the work is VERY interesting and the men and women who gravitate towards my field tend to make excellent coworkers. It also doesn’t have to be a “dirty” job. My work is design phase and takes place at my desk.
In my experience, the biggest barrier to entering my field is that the coursework on the college and post graduate level is very intimidating and as a society we tend to indoctrinate young women with the false idea that math is impossibly hard.
I took a class on the economics of gender while in majoring in Economics and, although that doesn’t make me an expert, it does give me some insight, maybe more than the average commenter. We studied the same data you seem to be citing here and in the comments (U.S. Census Data) and you’re on the right track in saying that women tend to gravitate away from STEM jobs. This is a fact. It’s the rest of your article that terrifies me. If you are genuinely curious as to why, keep reading.
1. Women have a biological tendency to give birth. It’s true. This contributes to the problem of women “shying away from” STEM jobs in a few ways. Think about the industries that evolve and advance the fastest; it’s likely technology, journalism, engineering etc. come to mind. These fast-paced industries have yet, in most societies, found a way to accommodate for child bearing aside from paid maternity leave (which, by the way, the U.S. ranks extremely low in, globally: http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05/24/489973/paid-maternity-leave-us/) and this primarily due to the traditional household model to which some families and employers continue to cling.
It is virtually impossible for a woman to comfortably retract into her career after being out of work for 9+ months (whether paid or unpaid) in STEM industries. The skills you have, that could have been relevant when you first left, could be stripped of value by the time you return. And the costs of retraining, getting another certification and so on may not be viable for the company or for the woman. There may be progressive companies that have created programs to accommodate for this problem (thanks to their Diversity & Inclusion Dept.) but these instances are rare in such competitive markets when additional costs could seriously set back a company. This is one of the primary reasons women, before even entering college, prefer jobs in education, health and banking or administrative work.
2. Girls are taught from a very young age by all forms of media, by the examples they see, the mentors they have (or don’t have), and the messages their sent, even subtle ones like our tone in speaking to them or subtext in our language, that there are predetermined roles they must fill in different phases of their lives: the mother (when they are older) and the sex object (when they are younger).
Now, the argument I’m making here is not that these labels are intrinsically “bad” or “wrong” As a sex positive feminist, I absolutely support women with agency, whether they’ve made the choice to care for their children or have decided to become strippers. It’s *choice* that is the thread between all feminist notions. The problem arises when girls believe these are the ONLY roles they can fill. Again, while studying gender economics, we studied how girls view their potential at various ages. It is INCREDIBLE to see how many very young girls want to be the president. Researchers follow these same girls and have watched those numbers plummet when they hit pre-teens/teenage years. You can find the exact numbers in the documentary “Miss Representation”.
These, compounded with things we generally don’t consider harmful, like asking your husband/boyfriend to do all the manual housework, criticizing other women’s bodies, or even just telling a girl she looks pretty instead of discussing books with her, create emphasis on the traditional female gender role in her mind. She comes to believe (probably not consciously) that her worth comes from her appearance or how nurturing she is and that she is best suited in jobs where those things are emphasized (i.e. not STEM jobs).
3. Finally another central theme to point out is something called the “Old Boys Club” which I will explain in a minute. It is analogous to economies of scale, which are the cost advantages a company gets through expansion. For example Wal-Mart can offer insanely cheap products because they’ve been around long enough to know how to utilize cheap labor overseas, how to expedite the production process, and so on. The have essentially monopolized their industry simply because they’ve been around longer (and are willing to operate without ethics, basically). This is the same phenomena that occurs in the STEM industry. Men have been in these industries longer (specifically white, heterosexual men). That is a fact. Before I continue, this is NOT because they are intrinsically more fit for these jobs. It is because of the traditional household model which, although was efficient in maximizing household good production and industry good production, was not INCLUSIVE and certainly not fair to all genders, whether intentional or not.
The Old Boys Club is a fancy way of acknowledging how difficult it is to work in a male-dominated field. Men golf together, they go to the bars together, they can discuss business in non-office environments because they’re friends. Of course, you can tag along for any of these many fun activities but how included will you actually feel? And of course there’s always the concern of sexual harassment when in casual environments with co-workers, or in the worst cases, rape.
You may TLDR this but I feel better having contributed what I can. I hope the internet outrage your facing doesn’t make you feel shitty, but makes you think critically about the messages you’re disseminating and the opinions you seem to have held for a long time.
Best of luck!
I appreciate your thoughtful comment.
I do wish women would stop blaming society for their choices. At some point, we have to take responsibility–hell, ownership–of our decisions. That’s not to say there aren’t external challenges to our upward mobility, but woman or not, I don’t have a lot of tolerance for complainers and excuse makers.
Admittedly, dealing with internet criticism is tough. But hey, if you share an unpopular opinion, you gotta be willing to stick by it. Despite the personal insults, my opinion remains intact.
“A woman is like a tea bag; you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water.” – Eleanor Roosevelt
Please re-read my comment. I was trying to answer your question on why women deviate away from STEM jobs with a few legitimate points…not asserting that they blame society for their choices.
To say that women blame society for their choices is to say that men, or ducks, or trees blame society for their choices. It’s a sweeping generalization and 100% impossible to test, and also probably 98% unlikely. I’ve never heard any of my female friends bitch or moan about society putting them down. Nearly all of them are thoughtful, well-spoken women that are challenging in their own academic arenas.
Male privilege might be what you’re trying to get at when you say “blame society” but, as far as I’ve seen, if a woman is smart enough to understand male privilege she’s also smart enough to understand it is absolutely not a blame-oriented topic. The idea behind the narrative of privilege in our society (whether it’s male privilege white privilege, heterosexual privilege etc.) is that there exists a status quo. A straight teenager never has to “come out” to their parents because that is the norm. A man doesn’t have to be afraid to walk alone at night because it’s the norm is that it’s unlikely for a man to be attacked (at least not as often as women are). And so on. These are the threads of our society that have developed over years and years of our culture changing. There used to be a time when interracial marriage was not allowed; that was the norm then…and of course it no longer is now.
The norm for women, whether some would like to admit it or not, is lower pay for equal work (women make roughly 70 cents on the dollar that men make purely due to discrimination — these studies have held other factors constant via regressions), discrimination in hiring based on whether women are married or have kids (why do you think it’s now illegal to ask those questions in interviews?), sexual harassment in the workplace with little to no consequences depending on the reliability of your human resources department. There is also the insanely high rate of domestic abuse, rape, and violence against women worldwide. And let’s not forget all the things I’ve already mentioned in my other comment.
To be clear, the reason I’m listing these points is not to blame anyone. It’s to make a point. The point is our culture is intrinsically favors certain groups of people; not women (also not minority races, homosexuals, transgender individuals etc.), regardless of who’s fault it is. That is a fact. The practical approach to dealing with this reality is (1) acknowledging that it is exists and (2) being proactive in addressing it.
That is what I try to do, when I can, when I’m not busy being a person. I’ll step in if my friend thinks it’s hilarious to use rape jokes during video games or try to listen if I have a friend who feels stuck in an abusive relationship. The world’s a shitty place, but especially for those without privilege Pointing that out is not blaming, it’s just being aware, and trying to help.
” lower pay for equal work (women make roughly 70 cents on the dollar
that men make purely due to discrimination — these studies have held
other factors constant via regressions),”
Current numbers are : Women earn 77-81% of what men do (depending on whats measured exactly). Thats comparing all women to all men and not controlling for any other factors. The gap is less for younger people. Median income for 16-24 year old women is 88% of men.
If you control for other factors such as age, experience and job to job comparison the gender wage gaps are generally lower.
On the other hand wage gaps are also bad between races, in fact white women make more than black men.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
I work in STEM and have two kids. I didn’t take nine months off. I took weeks.
However, even in semiconductors, you could safely take a year off and not lose your training. Yeah, the company might develop a new product, but the underlying processes are the same.
If you want to take seven years off, to say, stay at home with two kids till kindergarten, that’s different.
Is this real?
What workplace challenges? shithead comments like yours
I recommend that you take a basic class in rhetoric and gender studies. This post is filled with logical fallacies and hasty generalizations (there are too many in this post to list). STEM professions have long been dominated by men because MEN have had access to these professions and women have not. It appears that you do not have enough knowledge about the history of the women’s movement, women’s access to education, or the gender gap to comment logically on these issues. Comparing women working in STEM or in “blue-collar”professions to playing professional football is a faulty analogy (another logical fallacy and laughable).
“For some reason, women shy away from STEM professions. Additionally, we shun honest, good paying, blue collar work.”
Have you ever considered that women “shy” (very telling diction, by the way) away from these professions because of backward thinking like yours? This post is doing nothing but perpetuating negative stereotypes about women and women’s work (women do not want to be dirty, do heavy lifting, break a nail, etc.). How offensive. You talk about speaking your truth, and how you do not mind offending people if it is your “truth.” This way of approaching discourse is scary and confrontational. If this is the way YOU feel about the work YOU do, do not bring in generalizations to justify your life choices. You can have an opinion about anything; no one in these comments is saying that you cannot. But, in order for people to take your opinions seriously, educate yourself.
Cass, I think I love you.
Get it, girl, get it get it, girrrrl. Amen.
To answer the title of the post – Yes, women should work in male dominated professions. I do. I’d rather have a challenging job that taxes my brain each day, and stresses me out – I thrive on it.Plus, the money’s good 🙂
I work in a female dominated field that was very male dominated only a few years ago. My colleagues, especially the ones my age up to 10-15 years older, are 80% female.
I regularly come home dirty, smelly, covered in poop/urine/vomit/blood, I don’t get to dress nicely as I’m wearing scrubs 24/7 and I have to deal with animals that are 10 times my weight, if not more.
You know why my field is now so female dominated, while 30 years ago 90% of veterinarians were male, especially the ones working with large animals? Because boys are NOT interested in a job that makes you come home dirty/smelly/covered-in-body-fluids, especially if you have to study very hard and pass lots of tests to get there.
Despite of this 90% of teachers in vet school are male, go figure.
Fields like medicine (human and veterinary), law and science are becoming female-dominated because girls stopped listening to bullshit like the ones you are saying. We can do anything we want and it is proven that in any academic context girls do better than boys, not because we are smarter or inherently better, but because we’ve been told for so many years that we weren’t fitted for such fields that we lernt that we have to study hard and fight to get what we want. This thing that is happening in academic WILL happen in every other field, even the ones that require “physical” strength. Men told us we weren’t smart enough to be doctors, now they say we are not strong enough to be carpenters. Same bullshit.
“boys are NOT interested in a job that…”
Isn’t this is the kind of broad generalization that Shawanda is being criticzed for? Maybe you’re doing that on purpose to illustrate the point of how such broad generalizations about a gender can be offensive? Or are you serious?
Honey, you’re not a moron because you’re a woman. You’re just a moron.
Lol. I guess I must have imagined that I took a gap-year after high school and worked a year as waitress (oh no, dirty AND masculine!) and am now in my third year as a biology major. I am clearly not actually gearing up to head to dental school all while working part-time and only earning minimum wage. Your post clears it all up to me, I must actually be a man. And all those girls in my science/math classes and the young women I work with and I are clearly fooling ourselves thinking we’ll be anything but baby factories in a few years! You’ve opened my eyes truly. Bless you.
Is that what you got from my article? That women are lazy and stupid?
“When it comes to raw intelligence and creativity, I’m convinced–research be damned–that the sexes are equal.”
I thought that statement cleared things up, but alas, here we are.
As someone who grew up on a ranch and has done “men’s work” and then went out and worked a variety of jobs I find it funny that people get “offended” by someone’s opinion. You get what you want out of what you read. Personally I enjoy working inside and out of the heat and cold, but if I had to to support my family I would be out there in a second. I don’t think this post says anything other than men and women are made differently and because of that they may choose their professions with that in mind.
Hmmm… What do you think about men working in female-dominated professions. Given the number of people who hate their jobs (usually with good reason), maybe we shouldn’t assume that men should be expected to stay in higher-paying, stressful jobs when they could take a lower-paid job with less stress such as a secretary or admin assistant?
Off-topic: Gee, I hate Discus!!!!! Why not use Word’s perfectly fine comment function, which allows people to identify themselves as they please and which does not creepily track and store everything you say anywhere on the Web? This is actually Funny about Money, BTW.
WOW. What an archaic point of view.
As a strong, feminine, independent woman in a male dominated field I find this article not only inaccurate but something I hope no young woman aspiring to be an engineer, doctor, pilot (LIKE MYSELF) or any other male dominated career will ever read this piece. If any young woman is reading this, please know it is possible to THRIVE in male dominated career, meet amazing people, gain respect, financial independence, be an equal among your male peers, contribute, have job satisfaction and look great doing it. I am proof of this, along with MILLIONS of other women!
I will no longer be visiting this blog. What a disappointment.
I work in a male dominated field, engineering. To be exact, I work as an environmental engineer. Most of my time is spent on construction sites, in landfills, and test sites. Yes, I do get dirty, sweaty, muddy and deal with whatever else the elements throw at me. With my landfill projects, I have actually dug through garbage, both fresh and very old garbage (garbage that is older than me). I do projects where I have to lift and move heavy equipment and tools up and down steep slopes and awkward terrain.
Do I have the option of having a male counterpart do the work for me? No. My employer does not look at gender. My employer looks at our skills, strengths, and ability to do the work. Because of the great team of people I work with. At times, I do struggle. I’m 5’3″ and 130 lbs, so yes, some things I physically cannot do. This does not stop me from trying though.
Your comment about not wanting to smell, break a nail and mess up your hair makes me incredibly sad. I have had men on sites that believe this is how all females feel about hard work and being in the elements. These men thought that I would be fragile and they would have to do all the work. Because of this ignorant generalization, I have to work ten times harder to prove them wrong and show them that I can do the same work they can do.
Before you talk about how physically demanding, dirty, and masculine these jobs are, maybe you should try them. I would much rather spend 10 hours a day in the field than forced to sit in an office and be tied to a computer.
A lot of the jobs I’ve had were in male-dominated professions — a plastic factory, in a bookie’s, a computer help desk, an electrical engineer. I don’t mind a little heavy lifting or dirty-work, but *I think it’s more a matter of personality than gender* because I know my husband would shy away from traditional men’s jobs, too!
Even when I worked as a barista, I was expected to lug big crates of milk up the stairs — at the beginning, I couldn’t do it, but after a few weeks, the boys would pile extra milk cartons on top of the crate to see how much I could carry in one go (and none of the guys could carry any more than I could!) — I am 160cm and was probably 46kg at the time, so it’s not like I’m a big lady.
I am a woman, and after my divorce I moved to a small town where there were not a lot of job opportunities. I have tech experience, so I decided I would try my hand at installing internet in a rural community, in part because the job paid well. Well, it was an eye-opener, that’s for sure! I went into people’s disgusting homes, worked in horrible weather, met a lot of weirdos, climbed towers, crawled into crawl spaces and on dangerously sloping roofs, carried a ladder that was way too heavy for me, and am basically lucky I didn’t get killed. I lasted four months. On the upside, I met some nice people and learned a lot about power tools. When I did the job well, I felt very empowered, but it was super hard. I also felt weird because people were always surprised to see a mildly attractive woman doing the job and I had to dress in really guyish clothes.
Soon after this, I got an indoor job that paid less, but I am thankful every day I am inside and not risking my neck daily. I think everyone should have to do a job like this for a little while because it really gave me a whole new respect for what some people do all day! And while there are women that can do the job just fine, it is really 99% of the time, a man’s work. Before I did it, I would say that was a sexist attitude, but now that I know better I think it’s the truth!
I take my hat off to you for doing what you had to do to make a living for yourself. Male or female, I admire folks who do the tough jobs. Even if I were a man, I’m not convinced I’d be too thrilled to work outside in the elements and lift heavy stuff. I hated working in retail because I had to stand all day. My back would be on fire after about an hour at work.
Poor baby. Your back would hurt after an hour’s standing? Explains a lot… *smh*
I work in a female dominated industry… And I come home dirty, sweaty, sometimes covered in vomit or poop… We have male nurses and aides, and female maintenance workers where I work. I have also done radio, retail, and roofing. Guess where my hair and nails didn’t get messed up and where I made more money?
It is offensive to suggest that Anyone work in a particular industry based on their gender.
What’s with the “I’m offended” shtick? I’d ask, “Who cares if you’re offended?” But then, I wouldn’t want to deliberately offend anyone.
If you didn’t care if people were offended, you wouldn’t be responding defensively to commenters who disagree with you. Obviously, you do care, and you should.
Being offended by a sexist remark is not a “shtick.” If you say controversial sexist things on the internet, you better bet that someone is going to take offense to it! It’s really quite simple. Stop trying to play the victim and consider seeing things from a different perspective.
are you serious? wow! talk about an old fashioned outdated ideas- I fear for young women who read this stuff and actually take it seriously.
Yes, Louise. I am serious.
Exactly what do you disagree with? I doubt a thoughtful, young woman would read a single post and immediately conclude that she shouldn’t go into a male dominated profession. Give these phantom young women a bit more credit.
Right. They’d read this post and critique it like the majority of the other commenters on here who are surprised, baffled, and disgusted by what you have posted.
Are you serious? This is absurd.
The “challenges” of working in male-dominated fields include breaking fingernails, having to deal with football talk, and coming home smelly? Thank you for not even scratching the surface of the real issues and for promoting gender stereotypes in society.
What about the good ole’ boys culture that exists in hiring and promotion? And what about assigning all of the more challenging work to the men? What about the insistence about asking female job candidates about their family planning (illegal as it is)? What about the gender stereotyping, and the asking women to play housekeeper as well as employee?
Finally, what about the fact that some customers/clients/consumers-whatever, refuse to deal with or trust you because “you are not a man”.
You’re welcome.
The reason I ask a question at the end of my blog posts is to invite you to add your input.
“What workplace challenges, if any, do you think women who work in jobs historically held by men face?”
Thank you for sharing the other challenges women who work in male dominated professions face. Try not to be so angry next time.
I work in a male dominated industry of software engineering and I love it. If anything, it’s an advantage to me because as the only girl on a team of ten, and one of only a dozen on my entire floor, I am a memorable face, not just another code monkey. The thing I like the most – guys will respect you and work well with you as long as you are smart and get the job done, even if you’re a little awkward or you don’t have designer shoes. Can you say the same for an office full of women?
And I would not call engineering and science “dirty”… I have worked in both, and you get quite comfortable chairs in very pleasant office spaces. There’s more to STEM fields than the oil industry.
I used to work in a female dominated field of biological medical research and I will NOT be heading back to that cattiness any time soon!
I used to work for a software company. Women made up about 30% of the company. I liked it, and I thrived. I’m not sure my success had anything to do with the gender makeup of the office though.
As someone that works in a male dominated environment, and pulls my own weight (don’t believe me?–the job offers I’ve had from others, that I have the opportunity to turn down says you’re wrong), I agree with one of the other comments that the title of your post is misleading, and that these comments are your own personal opinion, not based on facts. Do some research next time.
Yes, this post is my personal opinion. I don’t know how one answers the question, “Should women work in male dominated professions?” without sharing her opinion. If you work in a “dirty job,” feel free to share the reason you decided to shirk societal norms. Nonconformity intrigues me.
I love manual labor. And I’m back in school now, but you can be sure
that when I finally graduate I’ll be back in the woods, hiking four
miles into work to cut up trees, far away from posts like this. I’m not the only woman who does it. My reasons are these: I like doing work I can see, something useful done with my own hands. I like the satisfaction of working on a team where everyone pulls their weight. And I do it to get into the backcountry, into a place where it doesn’t matter what I look like, where the only makeup is the dirt that comes off my work gloves when I touch my face. I “shirk societal norms,” as you say, because they made me dislike myself.
The idea that a woman is “shirking” societal norms should she choose to work in a male dominated environment is exactly what women are trying to break free from. Your blog post, on the other hand, just perpetuates the societal “norms” that are forced upon us.
I seriously can’t even with this post – It’s sexist and fraught with sweeping generalizations.
Just so I have this straight – ladies shouldn’t/wouldn’t want to do men’s work because it involves getting dirty, lifting heavy things, and male dominated conversations? Some men can’t lift packages that weigh 70lbs, just like some women CAN. It depends on the person and their specific abilities, not what gender they are. Just because you’ve never heard a woman say something about sports in your daily life doesn’t mean that “most” women are not interested in sports. It also doesn’t mean that all women would talk about is shoes and hair and tee hee hee that boy is cute! You’re seriously one step away from advocating that women stay home with kids because we’re the only ones that can physically conceive and carry a child – that it’s “women’s work”. Good job giving patriarchy a boost here.
I don’t even know where to begin with all the nonsense you’ve spewed in this comment.
First, stop being so sensitive. The reason I used qualifying words like “most” and “in general” is because I’m aware that what I say doesn’t apply to ALL women or ALL men.
I didn’t say that women shouldn’t work in male dominated professions. I tried to add insight as to what would give some women pause. More and more women have chosen to work, so why have they shied away from certain professions? It’s a fair question.
I spend more time talking about investing, politics, and economic policy than I do my hair, nails and shoes.
As far as who should stay at home with the kids, that’s none of my business. The parents have to decide what’s best for themselves and their children.
You’re not offering insight, you’re listing things you don’t like:
Is this post sponsored by Mitt Romney?
Whatever that means.
When asked how he would deal with income inequality between the genders, Romney essentially dismissed the topic as a non-issue, claiming that women earn less because they choose lower-earning professions and take extended leaves of absence from their career in order to raise children.
I don’t suppose it occurred to you when writing this that less than 100 years ago every profession was a male-dominated profession? It was barely more than 50 years ago that it was generally understood that women couldn’t handle more than basic secretarial work because anything more complex was simply too taxing on their delicate female brains.
Your article is offensive, whether you intended it to be or not, particularly the last line in which you admit you can’t convince yourself women will be successful in all male-dominated professions. The largest and most crippling barrier women face in the workforce isn’t men, but rather themselves and other women thinking they are less capable. So long as women believe they are somehow unworthy of the professions and positions held by men, they will fail to attain them.
Read my article discussing some the issues you touched on in your comment. http://fabbroke.wpengine.com/2012/04/how-to-make-money-like-a-man/
This is a good one too: http://youhavemorethanyouthink.org/what-you-can-do-to-stomp-out-gender-pay-discrimination/
It’s never my intent to offend, but I’m okay with offending people if I speak my truth. If you have an opinion, you’re gonna offend people. Surely, you can understand that.
By the way, I don’t think women would make good NFL players. Feel free to make your case as to why women should compete on the same football field as men.
The reason I mentioned that the sexes are equal when it comes to intelligence and creativity is because I believe women will thrive, no question, in male dominated professions that rely on brain rather than brawn.
Yes. Some women excel at “men’s work” that requires great physical strength, but they’re the exception. If you believe differently, maybe you should encourage your female readers to go after this type of work. The salaries are higher and with more job options, the employment rate amongst women will drop, which is a good thing.
wtf? Those articles hardly show your support for women in the workforce. The first bragging that you use certain “cards” to get ahead when the real problem you should be addressing is the fact that you have to use any cards at all. The second post merely takes the Romney stance that it’s fine women earn less because it’s really their own damn fault, when in reality its our North American culture with the lack of importance placed on family and equal roles in the home at the root of this injustice. Why can’t it be equally expected of a man to leave work early or stay at home to raise children?
The “raise-a-family” justification for women’s lower pay is the sexist leftovers from the era when that role belonged exclusively to women and men never left work for their families. Don’t you get that? This is the aftermath of decades where women were second class citizens, not a quaint difference between the sexes. Christ.
You are continuously PERPETUATING and JUSTIFYING gender stereotypes in your posts, not providing any solutions.
The NFL argument is a grasp at straws. Most men can’t even make it into the NFL. The concern right now is women scientists, engineers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, pipe fitters, etc. Let’s worry about professional sports AFTER we address the careers that are actually accessible to the average person, shall we?
And just because I’m curious, what about the transgendered population? What careers are right for them? Does it depend which sex they identify most with? Or which one they were born as? What if they feel equally male and female, what job and salary is right for them?
Maybe you’re neglecting this group with wishful thinking that it’s too small of a population to be considered, but there’s far more transgendered people than NFL players.
There should be no gender/sex barriers whatsoever to anyone pursuing any job or any salary. Are men biologically pre-disposed to be more muscular than women? Yes. But is that brawn necessary to be a good electrician or an engineer? Not in the slightest.
I think you’re missing the point of my post. I’m not suggesting women be banned from any profession. The reason I wrote this article was to point out the money making opportunities in fields men seem to flock to and to address the hesitations women may have with certain jobs, the blue collar jobs.
Part of the inspiration for this post came from some U.S. Census data I read that showed the underrepresentation of women in STEM related majors.
If women want to be scientists, engineers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, pipe fitters, etc. we should go effing be those things! Who’s stopping us?!
Women can start by obtaining the necessary skills to do well in those professions. You can’t cry discrimination if you don’t have the basic education and training.
When you’re a woman, a minority, fat, short, ugly, or whatever you SHOULDN’T have to play any cards. That’s true. But I focus on what I can control and the battles I’m willing to fight. I can’t end discrimination in the workplace. And quite, honestly, it’s not a pet cause of mine. I’d rather spend my time focusing on issues that I can control. Not whining about injustices that I refuse to make a valiant and individual effort to address.
BOTH posts I wrote provided solutions to close the gender wage gap.
Here’s a direct quote from the article I linked to:
“One solution is to seek out working arrangements that allow us to earn a good living and work from home.”
And a quote from the second article . . .
“Professor Belliveau has a smart, somewhat scary, solution: Advocate for a gender pay audit within your organization.”
You’re so hell bent on bitchin’ about views that differ slightly from your own you don’t pick up on explicitly stated solutions.
When I worked for a large accounting firm, two of the partners in my office were women. They’re husbands stayed at home. Good for them! *applause*
Women leaving work early to take care of their kids is a decision they make. There is nothing wrong with that decision. The father could just as easily make the decision to leave work early. The point is women are more likely to put their family’s needs before their career goals. That’s OKAY. But it should be understood that it’s a sacrifice.
As for the NFL, my point still remains. Yes, very few men can do the job of an NFL player. (Btw, I’m guessing there are more NFL players than astronauts.) But I’m betting the number of women who’d make the cut in the NFL is practically zero.
Transgendered people should receive the same rights and protections as everyone else. Stop trying to paint me as a close-minded bigot. You’re gonna hurt yourself. At no point in ANY article that I’ve EVER written do I even suggest it’s okay to infringe on the rights of others. Women, men, gays, bisexuals, the transgendered, blacks, whites, etc. should be allowed to do whatever job they’re willing and capable of performing.
No, I don’t think she is. She responded to your points carefully and logically, and you keep belaboring this point about football, which is a faulty analogy. Do some research, and then respond to Bridget. You are not her intellectual match.
Wait. Your post had a point?
I feel that your title is a bit misleading – this states that you, personally, do not wish to work in some of these fields; it doesn’t state that women shouldn’t work in traditionally male dominated fields.
I work in a male dominated industry and women are clamoring to get into it.
The title is a question: Should women work in male dominated professions? I gave my opinion. And I didn’t say that women shouldn’t work in male dominated professions. I merely mentioned some of the challenges.
Breaking a nail is not a fucking challenge. It’s an inconvenience that empty-headed people like you see as a genuine deterrent to doing something worthwhile, which has the simultanous effect of making women look bad.
I HEREBY SHUN SHAWANDA FROM MY GENDER. SHE IS NOT A WOMAN, SHE IS A DELICATE SNOWFLAKE.
It’s a tricky thing, employment in male or female dominated fields. When I was younger I believed I could be whatever I wanted, and I still believe that to a point. But when I finished my film degree, and the film industry is very male saturated, I realized I didn’t want a profession in that field because I wanted to eventually have a family and I didn’t want to work 12 hour days and not have work stability. I think there are lots of other professions like this out there that maybe women avoid because of the lifestyle they would have to live to be in it.
I think that’s part of it. For instance, I think women would make fine investment bankers. There just aren’t that many in the field. I’m sure there are multiple factors that hold down the number of women who go into investment banking, but one biggie is the number of hours they have to work. The more time you spend at the office, the less time you have to spend with your family.