Warning: This is a personal post, and a mini rant on dating in general. This has nothing to do with finance.
Why is dating so tricky?
Is it because they really are tricky, or are we just over analyzing and making it trickier than it should be?
I was thinking about this the other day when I was on the phone with my sister (who is having a hell of a guy “problem” that I think is imagined), and I thanked my lucky stars I found BF and have to look no more.
I was always of the belief that the simplest way was the most honest and direct way for both guys AND girls.
For instance, if a guy says he likes me on Facebook, or friends tell me he likes me, or there’s a like-something chemistry going on but he never followed through with a formal date, time and place with just the two of us, I write him off.
Then predictably, I’d hear: Oh wait! Hey! I liked you. I thought we were going to have something.
Me: When? In this millennium? Or when humans become extinct?
Them: I was taking it slow, trying not to get rejected, didn’t want to push you, bla bla bla (whatever reason they want to make up for lack of direct action)
Me: Sorry. Too little, too late. (I say something along those lines, but not those words exactly.)
I really loathe ambiguity.
I am not talking about being tactful or trying to be respectful, I am talking about not being clear and using simple words strung together in a sentence that can be comprehended by others.
SISTER’S SITUATION
Basically, they’ve been beating around the bush for 2 months.
They’re both to blame, and they only Facebook or Facebook Chat each other.
He doesn’t call her, she doesn’t call him, they only hang out in group situations where he gets jealous if she talks to a guy and vice versa but they aren’t dating.
But nothing. ever. comes. of. it.
She gives him mixed signals when she tells him she’s down for “whatever” but doesn’t clearly state that she wants one-on-one time with him and not in a group. So the guy is probably wondering WTF is going on.
It’s frustrating to have been part of this conversation:
(Note: Yes I am very blunt with her, because she is the type that cannot deal with being coddled because it just encourages her neuroses.)
Sister: But I don’t want to put myself out there!
Me: So you want to stay single then, is that it?
Sister: No, but I want HIM to ask ME.
Me: What kind of stupid mind game is that? You don’t have to formally ask him out if you’re scared.
Just write: Hey, how’s it going, what are your plans for the weekend?
Sister: But I gave him my number and he knows I’m on Facebook, why isn’t he calling or asking me out?
Me: Because you’ve been giving him mixed signals by not affirmatively saying: Yes I’d like to date you one-on-one.
Ask him what he’s doing this weekend.
Sister: *HORRIFIED* NO! I can’t just write and ask him what he’s doing, that’s WAY too direct.
Me: Oh so you want him to mind read then?
Sister: Well NO, but maybe he just doesn’t like me.
Me: He told you that you were very attractive, he was interested in you, that he is TOTALLY INTO you two being together, and you’re telling me that’s not clear enough for you?
Sister: Are you sure? What if he is just saying that because he does it to all the girls? So why hasn’t he asked me out?
Me: Why are you making this so complicated for yourself?
He hasn’t done it because you are BOTH shy and you were giving him mixed signals on whether or not to go ahead and ask you out.
Sister: He just wants to “chill”. He also didn’t take a cab with me that night, what was up with that?
Me: …..a cab? Is that all you’ve got?
Sister: Well maybe it’s because I didn’t sleep with him yet
Me: … oh good. So now the reason is that you’re not the town slut.
Sister: That’s what _____ said. She said if I don’t keep them interested with sex, he’ll lose interest.
Me: …. I cannot believe we are having this exact conversation in this day and age.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
1. ISSUE: NOT BEING CLEAR AND DIRECT
I know guys might find this bizarre but girls actually like honesty, directness and tact. Hate the bush beating. HATE.
I usually wrote people like that off as: flaky, not committed, full of baggage, unsure of self and not ready to date.
I don’t want a wishy-washy person to date, I want to know that they can act like an adult and I don’t need to babysit or mother them when it comes to bigger issues if we stay together.
Hinting doesn’t work. “We SHOULD go out to that burrito place” is not the same was “Let’s go out to that burrito place tomorrow.”
2. ISSUE: NO FIRM DATE OR TIME
If you want to just “chill” with me “anytime” and “anywhere”, I call BS.
Ask me on a formal date, next Friday and let’s go to coffee or dinner or whatever, but don’t just leave it so ambiguous and say you want to “chill”. If I wanted to “chill”, I’d call a friend or do it by myself. If I am single, I don’t need another friend to chill with.
3. ISSUE: USING IMPROPER COMMUNICATION
Facebooking me, Facebook Chatting me, Messaging me (Blackberry, MSN, iPhone, or other sorts of BS) and any other bloody thing but talking to me in person, or emailing me with a “Hello, I think you’re nice and I’d like to take you out on a date. Are you free this weekend?” makes me roll my eyes.
Whatever happened to the simple channels of calling up a girl and saying: Hey this is Billy from ______. Are you free this weekend to go out on a date with me? Or talking to them in person?
Ambiguity, gone.
Instead, we’re trying to figure out if taking a cab with us rather than taking a cab with his friend, or the way he orders drinks for you, or WHATEVER ELSE we make up in our heads by over analyzing every action someone takes, rather than just being clear and direct.
4. ISSUE: NOTING EVERY LITTLE ACTION AS A SIGN
So he didn’t take a cab with you. Maybe he wanted to share with his friend.
Maybe he wasn’t sure if you wanted to cab with him.
Maybe he just doesn’t have the money but would rather owe his friend than you.
The point is that it’s just a cab ride, and it isn’t like he grabbed a cab with another girl and started making out with her.
Who cares?
It’s a cab ride. It isn’t a “sign” that he hates you.
So he handed you a used ticket from the club. It isn’t a sign that he’s in love with you either.
Stop reading into that crap.
Here are some direct questions you can ask:
- Do you want to go out this weekend?
- Are you free tonight for a date/to go out with me?
- Do you want to go bowling with me?
- How about a movie together?
- Want to go grab a coffee together?
- Do you want to go to dinner some time?
Just ask. It’s just words. It isn’t life or death.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
Hey, in Toronto and Montreal I’ve seen firsthand that it’s in the girl’s court to put herself out there. Guys here are used to type A women!
Tell your sister to suck it up and be direct: ask him point blank where he sees this going so she’s not wasting any more of her time. I’ve seen all sorts of results with this approach, all of them for the best.
I hear you loud and clear! Between that type of drama or the ones that are in a relationship who are equally ridiculous with their communication strategies, I am one step away from cutting these people out of my life, or at least these conversations. I love them and want them to be happy, but enough already. My latest stance is grow up, grow a pair and tell him not me. When there is an actual real problem, I will be there. Good for you for branching out on this one!
Just being up front….most men now a days don’t ask women out. They always want us to do it because they believe they don’t have to do it. They can’t do it for them selves, and then they get upset when you move on. IF that’s the case, I agree with you she should just ask and be done with it. Women (& men) waste too much of their lives beating around a bush with dating. ALSO!! Tell your sister she should NEVER put out!! It’s stupid that women think they need to do that in order to keep a guy. If the guy is like that, then he didn’t “really” like/love you in the first place. Have some self respect Ladies!! Also, I’ve read before that women who “do” put out early, men know that they aren’t real relationship material. So they’ll just keep up with stupid games. UGHHHHHH…..sorry, but had to say that.
I don’t know if it’s just dating that is so hard. I have been with my BF for over 2 years and I still think its hard. Some days…. it just feels like work. I love the guy to death but it’s not easy like having a best girl friend. Why is that? UGH.
I don’t know why it is but in my experience most guys are like that – even guys over 30 with serious jobs who can command a room full of investors or executives with no problem. Either they don’t care to date or don’t know how to date or some combination, but they REFUSE to make plans in advance – and girls don’t demand it so why would they?
After a few drinks with their buddies or alone they will start texting/facebooking whatever girl they like and say something like “so what are you up to” instead of “I’d like to hang out; want to grab dinner later?” The girl inevitably responds that she’s “not sure yet” because how else are you going to leave yourself open/available without saying “not sure – want to grab a drink?” which seems forward and even, by that point, undesirable since you’re clearly dealing with a grown up man child who can’t even interact with you without being half drunk and using technology as a mediator.
The last three guys I’ve dated/talked to treated me like this until I swiftly kicked them to the curb. Then it’s all “I’m sorry I liked you I thought things were fun!” UGH. I’m pretty sure I’ll be single forever. Seriously.
PS I just had to add that one of the guys I was dealing with kept texting or calling me sporadically to ask what I was doing on Friday nights – which is not enough notice but I’m willing to overlook it and not play games. We would both admit to being tired/relaxing at home, he’d say “we should get together!” and then I’d start to get enthusiastic that he was about to ask me out…and he’d follow up with “text me if you end up going out later and maybe I’ll get a second wind.” WTF? Word for word this happened two separate times (of course I never called him), and the only communication we had in between was a couple of drunk dials when he’d be begging to meet up with him at a bar after 11pm. And the sad thing is he’s a great guy and a real catch in every way except, apparently, having balls and communicating effectively.
Interesting post.
I think that one of them has to ask the other out. If your sister won’t do it, then it defaults to the guy. He needs to step up and ask her.
If neither of them can make the next move, then they should just move on.
I don’t like it when guys are wishy washy like that. I think a lot of times too a guy/girl needs some push to make things happen. When I met my bf, he was like that. after talking to him for a while, I asked him to do something on a weekend, and he didn’t want to commit to anything firm before hand, just saying “oh ok i’ll move something around when the weekend comes and we’ll fit it in”. I told him that I was seeing other guys too and wasn’t going to wait around for an ambiguous plan, and he stepped up his game and committed to a time and asked me out on a proper date. i think i’m just too impatient for these kind of mind games, if it lasted for too long I would just get annoyed and/or lose interest.
I haven’t been married for almost 7 years, so I can’t say I understand some of this BS from that side, but I do understand it with friends. I have the most non-commital friends. They act the same way, facebook, maybe a text, but the only difference is I blatently ask do you want to do X and always get more excuses. Your sister needs to move on and so do I!
Gah, that’s so frustrating! Your sister could learn a thing or a billion from you.
Boy can I relate. Or at least, I could relate, 20 years ago. I happened to attract “that guy”. That guy who wants to be your “friend” and wiggle his way in that way. But man, I didn’t want that. Do you want to go out with me or not? Of course, if you ASK that, they’ll say “no, what do you mean?” It happened 2x in college (with the same guy!) and once in the Navy. THAT guy took 1.5 years to ask me out, and waited to do it until we were in a group setting. And I said “no”. He said “what do you mean no?” I mean, no I don’t want to go out with you. But what a painful year and a half.
Wait! You’re dating now?
I was thinking he put a ring on it?
Even my bf thinks the 24 hour no calling thing is silly. I met my bf online and honestly it took us about 3 1/2 years to meet and you know what, I wish I had met him like 3 months after we talked online. I’m sorry I waited that long. In fact he asked to meet me after 3 months of meeting online but I was so insecure at the time I brushed it off.
So I did get my second chance after 3 1/2 years, but you know what I wish that I hadn’t waited so long. What if your crush meets someone else? Ugh. I really wish I hadn’t waited so long, sometimes you have to take your chance, be smart but take your chance. Otherwise you might miss out on a great person.
Hahaha. Your sister’s thing actually sounds like how my fiance and I met. Granted, we were in high school. Have you read He’s Just Not That Into You? It’s got some really good kernels in there. The takeaway I got from that book is: if someone is interested, they will show you. With more than words, with ACTION. People tell you who they are and how important you are in their lives: if someone treats you like you are an afterthought, or just chat with you but never ask you out, or play stupid mind games, they are telling you that you are not that important and they don’t really care that much. So when they tell you that, believe them. And then move on.
Guys are not mind readers.
I have met a few guys that will “chat” for a while and never commit, usually because they are either looking for some cyber action, or have no interest in pursuing a relationship with you and don’t want to hurt your feelings.
What amazed me when I was back in the dating pool for a year after a divorce, was all the “games” the dating sites encourage. “Don’t call him back within 24 hours, don’t seem interested ” Be this way”, “Don’t be this way” etc.
For me, it’s simple, when someone calls, answer the phone, if you can’t answer the phone, return the call when you can (within normal waking hours). After being with someone with whom you enjoyed their company, a quick text the next day of “Thanks for the great time last night, I enjoyed seeing you” is enough. If they text or call back, life is good, if not, move on.
I found having my own life that I enjoy and being real with guys took most of the unwanted drama out of dating.
(Note: Yes I am very blunt with her, because she is the type that cannot deal with being coddled because it just encourages her neuroses.)
LOL, this describes me to a T. I’m “shy” and people find that a good reason to coddle me, but I find honestly and even bluntness more comforting.
The problem is simple – the guy is way too passive. Most girls like to chased and prefer to be the passive one, and whether or not guys like it, they have to respond in kind by being the more aggressive “chaser”. Is the guy above Asian? Most of them suck at this and are way too passive aggressive. Both are clearly insecure too if they’re scared of being more upfront and sending clearer signals.
hahaha I have this problem. I liked a guy I met at my sister’s birthday a few months ago, so I added him to Facebook because I didn’t have any other way to contact him. I started messaging him and he seemed pretty interested but wouldn’t ask me out. When I missed a message and noticed I then gave him my phone number… he responded by face booking me his number (wtf?). I texted him for a few days but he never asked me out (and eventually getting to know him through all our conversation I found we didn’t have much in common so I just stopped responding). I would have 100% said yes to a date if he asked me during those first 2 or 3 times we talked, but him not asking actually made me like him less. For a few weeks afterward I would get the occasional “hey what’s up?”, so it seems he was really interested, but I don’t answer. Next, please!
I guess I could have asked him but I felt it was enough that I had started 100% of our interactions. I don’t like to feel like I’m the only one investing any energy into something. Maybe this makes me guilty of being one of the girls that thinks the man should do the asking, but so be it.
I have to agree. All this wish-washiness drives me crazy! Both sexes have a challenging time being straightforward but it seems like the number one thing I hear from my female friends is that HE should do the asking out. I’m always taken aback by this…whatever happened to girl power and the like? What’s so wrong about asking ‘What are you up to this weekend?’ I think as far as we’ve come in terms of feminism, there are still deeply rooted notions about romance that persist.
I think that people are just afraid of being too upfront and too quick most of the time is all. We’d rather have the other person as a friend and around us than risk losing them. My boyfriend says that one time, he told a friend “I like you. Can we go out?” back in high school, and she stopped talking to him outright.
Also, social norms – for some reason we want the men to ask us out. In my case, my boyfriend did the asking, but only because he beat me to it. Also, women stereotypically overanalyze everything, which I am shamefully guilty of too sometimes.