This won’t be super scientific, and I may even have apples thrown at me for this, but I’m going to put it out there that living in Canada doesn’t offer you a whole lot of options for staying in a truly urban city and being able to buy a home for a decent price.
Farfetched? Maybe.
Or maybe I’ve been watching too many American HGTV shows where the couple says:
Oh 2 billion square feet, 18 bathrooms and 25 bedrooms?
Hmm I don’t know honey, is that enough space?
And is it within our price range?
Oh what? It’s only $200,000?
Well it’s a bit expensive but I think we can do it.
Okay so I’m exaggerating a little, but seriously this is how I feel.
Disclaimer: I am again, not trying to say if you’re American or Canadian you are better or worse than each other.
Or if you own a home you’re a sucker (you’re not, because I am the only one in my family who doesn’t own a home much less a fixed address, and I don’t consider them suckers).
I don’t really care about loyalties. I am looking at it from an objective, general perspective that is wholly unscientific, seeing as I am not willing to put in the time to massage data and statistics.
BOR-RING!
Let’s just skip to the good, far fetched theories and ignore that these are two separate countries, with two separate governments, sets of people and yadda yadda.
CANADA IS NOT THAT MUCH LARGER THAN THE STATES
First, let’s talk about the size of our respective countries, shall we?
Everyone loves to scream: Canada is the second largest country in the world, WOO HOO!!!!
But if we take a look at these statistics, we’re larger, but not by much, only by 347,049 sq. km., which I know is a lot of land, but it isn’t as though we’re comparing Russia versus Vatican City or Monaco.
I am also comparing Canada with the States, because we really are similar in the sense that we could transplant ourselves into the States and vice versa, and never skip a beat.
..BUT WE HAVE LESS LIVABLE LAND/SPACE
We do. I mean if you look at the population up there, USA dwarfs Canada in sheer population. The States has a population density of 31.6 compared to our measly 3.3.
So what gives? Why aren’t more people in Canada?
Is this because Canadians are not friendly enough? No.
Is it because we’re beside Alaska? (I kid I kid!) No.
Is it because we don’t let people into our country? No. The States has way harsher immigration laws than Canada.
Is it because you can’t pronounce names like Saskatchewan and you’d have to bring a map to show people where you live? No.
It’s because we can’t live just ANYWHERE in Canada like you can in the States!
We have so much freaking land, but we can’t live in every part of Canada.
It gets progressively colder as you move up North, and most people would rather settle around somewhere with a mild climate, like Vancouver, rather than in some snow-ridden place far away from the main urban cities.
The weather up here is not as people-friendly in all parts of Canada as it is in the States. Point blank.
SO LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT OUR POPULATIONS
You already know that the States is has a population density of 31.6 by square kilometer, compared to Canada’s 3.3.
But let’s look at it by city:
These are our top 20 cities. (Wikipedia)
Now let’s look at the States (Wikipedia):
To get to Canada’s 20th Largest City (St. John’s Newfoundland and Labrador) at 151, 322, you need to go all the way down to City #157 on the U.S. list to get a comparable population.
FB, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF HOUSES?
I’m so glad you asked.
This means that people in Canada jam themselves into a smaller range of cities than in the States.
People can easily find steady work in urban cities, or surrounding areas near to big urban cities. So that means people tend to flock to the biggest cities in the country, in hopes of finding something better than limiting themselves to some mid-sized town that may not have enough employment to offer.
We have 20 cities you can live in to be considered ‘urban’. The States has 157 urban areas to match to our measly 20.
That is almost 8 times more of a choice of where you can decide to live!
This may not seem very significant to you if seeing as you live in NYC and it costs millions just to live in some hovel in the basement with rats as roommates, and you’d never consider moving to Pasadena, Texas if the prices of homes were cheaper.
I am also not factoring your job/career, ties, family, etc etc etc into all of this. This is a simple, stupid look at Canada vs. USA for homes, seeing as everyone likes to compare these two countries as being pretty much the same in terms of culture (read: TV shows watched in both countries).
But you have the choice in the States.
Here, I can only move to 5 cities for steady, actual work across the whole country:
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Ottawa
- Vancouver
- Calgary
In the state of Texas alone, I can go to:
- Dallas/Forth Worth
- Austin
- San Antonio
- Houston
- El Paso
OKAY, YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING TO THE COST OF HOUSES!
Patience! I’m already there.
Here’s a quick list I pulled of some listings in Canada.
As I’ve said, it isn’t scientific, so I didn’t take into account how many people would want to live in Salt Lake City, UT versus in Toronto, ON or whatever else. I also didn’t run it through a billion variables and I am writing this post half-lucid from the vertigo I am experiencing.
I am just taking a quick range of what is available out there.
In Canada I am comparing Toronto and Guelph.
Guelph is about an hour away from Toronto and is considered a surrounding city to an urban city, as people just travel to work in Toronto or they get enough residual business in Guelph, by feeding off the economy in Toronto that they can stay in the town.
CRITERIA FOR THE HOMES I SEARCHED
- 2000 square feet
- 2 bedrooms
- 2 bath
- detached home
- 2-car garage
Note: I am not going to add California or NYC to this list. They have populations and prices far out of reach to do a comparison, so I’m picking normal cities (yes, ones I’ve lived in or would like to), and doing a quick random search.
TORONTO, ON = $400,000
POPULATION = 2,503,281
I couldn’t find anything for under $400,000 in Toronto, proper.
This is all I came up with the minute I searched with $400,000, 14 properties.
GUELPH, ON = $300,000
POPULATION = 114,943
Now let’s look at Guelph that is nearby, with the same criterion as above.
This is frigging ridiculous to me. How can GUELPH cost so much? Their population is 114,943 which is a small city in the States, down around #220 on the list.
I am going to acknowledge that it being so close to Toronto means it costs more money to live there, but seriously? $300,000?
NOW LET’S LOOK AT THE STATES
SALT LAKE CITY, UT = $166,903
POPULATION = 183,171
I picked this city because I saw a couple on HGTV buy a home there that looked huge, for such a small price.
The population of Salt Lake City, UT is 183,171, but like Guelph, ON, and the city is also located close to a major city hub called Wasatch Front with an estimated population of 2,298,915, which is comparable to Toronto’s 2,503,281.
(Even the real estate search engines in the States are far better, look at all the variables I could put in)
I mean UNREAL. $166,903 and you can buy a home that fits a criteria of a $300,000 – $400,000 home in Guelph/Toronto. That is almost DOUBLE the price.
Just for kicks, let’s look a the price of a home in Wasatch Front:
WASATCH FRONT = $175,000
POPULATION = 2,298,915
Comparing this to Toronto’s $400,000 for something similar, it sort of makes you gasp.
How about Dallas, TX?
POPULATION = 1,188,580
It’s even sicker. There are 288 properties for around $200,000.
Okay, so it’s not Toronto’s 2.5 million population, but this still drives home the point for me.
MY CONCLUSION?
CANADA HAS LESS CHOICE IN URBAN CITIES AND IT COSTS MORE MONEY
Grrrrrrrreat.
TO WRAP UP
- Canada is not that much larger than the States
- The States is 10 times more dense in population compared to Canada
- Canada has less human-friendly, livable land than the States (think polar bears and empty tracts of land)
- The States has more choice in urban cities — you have at least 25 places to choose from! Canada has 5.
- Canadian houses with my unscientific comparison above, cost 2 times more than in a comparable American city
If you want some statistics, I am not sure how reliable this site is, but it lists out House Prices in Canada:
All I can say is OUCH.
Note: Not as a slam against any other Canadian province, but I should point out the obvious that BC, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec are the 4 major provinces that have most of Canada’s population living there, including yours truly.
The other provinces simply have less people there and could account for why the home prices are lower as well.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
Yes – you are exactly right. I’ve lived in Seattle, Virginia, Iowa and Edmonton. The housing prices are very expensive in Canada. There are several reasons for this, including zoning laws and the fact that material and labor is more expensive in Canada. It’s much cheaper in the US unless moving to a place like NYC or San Fran. Cities such as Austin, Kansas City, Portland, Chicago, Kansas City, St. Louis, San Antonio, Eugene, Minneapolis, Tampa, Memphis, Sacramento, Houston, Denver, ect., all have reasonable housing prices, especially when compared to Canadian cities. And if you look at the smaller markets in Des Moines or Oklahoma or Wyoming or Utah or Tennessee you’ll really find some cheap houses.
Canadian Citizen – I would rather live in the usa, The guns scare me which is why i dont live there already. I like Canada for the safety. Its worth the extra money. But buying a house in canada is a waste of money. You cannot pay off your mortgage in 10 years like states, you are paying until you are old and should be retiring. That is why there are NO jobs avalable around urban cities. People WONT retire.
Dear canadian govt. Please open more jobs for new graduates and students that pay well.
Applying to jobs with 400+ people going for the same job is not fair.
FYI to anybody trying to move to toronto. There are no jobs left. So try a different city.
Here are some facts to support this article, and other facts on how Canadians are gouged:
#1 Anyone suggesting that he should be comparing Toronto to NYC or Chicago is nuts. Just look at the size and culture of cities like New York compared to Toronto, Canada is an embarassement. Having been in most major cities, I can tell you Toronto lacks soul and cannot compare to major cities in the US (even looking at the subway lines, Toronto has two, how many does New York have???)
#2 Average salaries are actually higher in the USA compared to Canada
#3 Cell phone contracts are 50% more expensive in Canada
#4 Fuel is 25% more expensive in Canada
#5 Alcohol is 100% more expensive in Canada
#6 Cars are at least 15% more expensive in Canada (even the ones that are built up here)…
If a reputable employer is reading this, I would love to move down to the states on a work visa. Enough of the cold, enough of over paying for every last f***ing thing.
-Mad Canadian
I’ve lived in both Canada and the US and i Have to say I agree! I made pretty much the same pay in both but in the US I got more value as far as quality of life goes.. you get more for your money for sure
Great research article. I lived in the US for a few years and even renting costs only a fraction of what it costs in Canada. You’re right, the main reason is that US has much more livable space than Canada.
I know that there are a lot of details that are not included in this comparison that most of us aren’t aware of but here’s one that I think is pretty big, pause, big breath …… most people in the US file for bankruptcy because of medical bills. This is interesting because as I understand, the residential property cannot be considered in bankruptcy proceedings. In Canada the homeowner has no medical expenses, and the country’s banking system is more sound, (there were zero bank failings in Canada) but ……
You are a joke. If you say most people who file for bankruptcy do so because of medical, it’s still passably believable. You said most people in the USA file for bankruptcy?? Lol. First, we don’t have 50% of our people (the definition of most) filing for bankruptcy. Second, overwhelming majority of people in the USA don’t contract any serous illness. Most bankruptcy cases that happen occur from failed businesses ( we are a entrepreneurial country, unlike you), speculation in stocks and job loss.
Great blog
What are the taxes like in Canada? With the universal healthcare system, are Canadians taxed more to pay for this, and do the higher tax rates equate to higher property values?
HST taxs is 1.13
They are taxed more for everything! The healthcare is not free. It’s just that they’re too dumb not to realize.
You should have looked at house prices in Kelowna BC. Good luck finding something here for less than $700K.
There’s a saying about Kelowna: If you want to leave here with a million bucks, you have to come here with two million.
This shows that the u.s. and canada aren’t as similar as we may assume. No mortgage interest deductions, a MORE concentrated financial system, no fannie mae, less investment in roads, fewer medium-sized cities and a less developed internal national economy all affect housing. It just shows you get what you pay for. Canada has put less into the things that support housing and has gotten less housing. Sounds fair to me.
as far as my concept goes, most americans live in suburbs , that is why prices are low. But why dont u compare NYC CHicago and LA prices with Toronto, Montreal, you would not find much difference. If you go to some BD rural town in Ontario, you will obviously find it cheaper there coz nobody wants to live in rural areas. that is they way it is in canada.
your statistics are wrong regarding Canadian big city populations. First of all Toronto population is not 4 million , you have used this against NYC 8.5 million.Toronto city is around 2.6, its urban or metro area is around 5 million, but u want to compare metro areas then New York is actually almost 20 million, and these 20 million areas are not suburban, trust me, even long island has as much density as Etobikoke which is just part of Toronto city, so do not BS.
I agree with you. I live in Southern California, in a nice neighborhood with excellent schools and an easy commute to the city. But based on the same source of information (HGTV), my house is valued at about half of a similarly situated place shown on “Love It or List It”.
Housing up here in Canada is TOTALLY overpriced. Homes are too small and kitchens with 4 full over the counter cupboards and they claim it is a CHEFS KITCHEN, give me a break. I love Canada, lived her most of my life (5 years in Mexico while in school). Still I believe with conservative governments and greed ruling for the last 20 years, we are in for more cost of living increases and land grabs. I am saving to retire and move to the EAST coast. After living in COLD UNFRIENDLY EDMONTON, I can brave the snow fog and wet there NO ISSUE. I will take the beach, the quiet anyday… oh yeah AND A HUGE KITCHEN!
I am always appalled watching the Canadian shows on hgtv and the small icky houses, old and weird for tons of money. No yards, and 800k? Are you nuts? Your real estate has gone up 104%in 10 years. All these Canadians are hot for a basement oh boy! I can’t imagine how middle class people can afford such expensive places.
I love this post! I also am shocked when I watch HGTV (ESPECIALLY House Hunters and House Hunters International). What? I can get a CASTLE in Italy for the price of a house in Vancouver? 🙂
From what I understand, housing codes in Canada are more strict. And more laws are national – in the U.S. housing laws are local – not even at the state level. Also sales tax is higher in Canada than the States (also set by state and local governments) – the same reason most goods in the States are cheaper than Canada. We sue to fix the problem; is Canada quite as litigious? Finally the U.S. has less strict lending standards, so more qualify for a loan, so there is more demand – to meet this demand we had a huge boom in supply, so prices didn’t explode quite as much (though they did explode). Also the US as a whole collects less property taxes because we fund less welfare-type programs because we are greedy and self-interested. Not to reveal a bias!
I wonder how the wages compare in these major centres.
I live in a suburb outside of Dallas, TX (total population for DFW metropolitan area is 6 million) and we purchased a 1955, 1200 sq ft, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1 car garage home for 135k. The same home in the city of Dallas would cost around 200k. If we were to go farther north (farther away from Dallas) we could purchase a much newer 2000 sq foot home for around the same price. The type of home that I’d really love to have, 1920s – 1940s, closer to downtown Dallas, smaller lot and smaller area would be in the 300-500k range. So it really depends on where in Dallas you’re searching. You’re right, we have a lot of options in Texas – it’s a large state, lots of cheap land, many urban areas. But this comes at a price – sprawling suburban areas, bad public transportation, 100 F (40 C) summers, highest obesity rates, highest poverty rates, highest high school dropout rates, ignorant Conservative population, Texas nationalists, etc. I could go on and on. People don’t move to Texas because it’s THAT wonderful. They move down here because they get more bang for their buck. And that’s great if that’s what’s important to you. My husband and I would give anything to pack up our stuff and move up north to Canada – as far as we’re concerned, the “sacrifices” are worth it. I’d love to live in a smaller space, in a city with public transportation and higher density and a more “urban” environment (we’re thinking Toronto).
I lived in Toronto from last 20 years. Got married and moved to Dallas. My husband is born and raised in Dallas. The last year I suffered a depression to be in Texas. People food everything so different. These people need at least 20 years to catch up with Toronto. Toronto is excellent in many ways. Love it!!!
you are a liar, i iived in toronto.. there is nothing special about toronto. Toronto has younge street and a few more beat up areas. I guess, queen, spadina, or bay st are meccas. the thing is Americas dont know enough about canada to comment but i do. Toronto sucks and everyone there are up to their eyeballs in debt. Canadians make less than we do and everything is twice as expensive. Get a clue and go back home to that shitty ice hole called toronto
I think your results would have been different if you changed your search criteria a bit (I know, unscientific, but). You are cutting out entire huge swathes of Toronto, including my street/house, by asking for a 2-car (what? why!) garage and 2,000 sq ft.
I’m originally from Ireland though, and despite the crash and recession there at the moment still can’t afford a house in my home city, so it’s all relative …..
I think you need to distinguish more between “can’t live” and “don’t want to live”. Otherwise you’re perpetuating a stereotype that isn’t true.
When I was an exchange student in Europe, my english teacher tried to teach the class about Canada. He pulled down a map of the US, pointed to the strip of Canada at the top of it, and said that everyone in Canada lived in this strip because the rest of the country was permafrost and you can’t live there. My parent’s home, according to that map, was located somewhere in the floor joists for the classroom above us. It was definitely not on the map, and I can assure you it is just as beautiful and livable as anywhere else in the country.
I don’t think there is less livable land in Canada at all. I’d prefer where I am now to somewhere with hot arid desert. I know how to deal with the cold, I don’t know how to deal with the heat.
That being said, I would love to be paying American housing prices. *sigh*
With the price of American homes, you also need to remember that we were (and still are) in a housing crisis and a recession. Many houses and apartments are cutting their prices to get sold and also many have been foreclosed.
Love your blog, and I’m not trying to be “one of those people”, but seriously? You can cover the whole country by working in 5 cities from Vancouver to Montreal? How about the ENTIRE EAST COAST? You skipped 4 provinces by stopping in Quebec. Be friendly to your fellow Canadians, and don’t forget all of us east of Montreal please!!
If you read my blog post you would have noticed that I put in there: the
only 4 cities I can normally work in are….
I don’t and cannot work in smaller provinces without as many companies as in
Toronto/Montreal, nor can I work in the midwest. I can only work in major
cities like Montreal and Toronto, and that’s because they have the largest
concentration of companies (in all the industry ranges) for me to be able to
find a job.
The rest for me, are specific cities that don’t have as many companies (or
head quarters) that I can work at for my line of work.
Please don’t get so defensive, it wasn’t on purpose that I left out the
other cities, I was thinking of it from my perspective.
Interesting. But also compare ages. Living in older cities in the US, our homes are CRAPPY and expensive. I know that we lived in a house for 5 years without insulation. My DH is canadian and didn’t believe a home could not have it. Turns out he was wrong. Turns out that it’s the norm here. So age and quality of homes.
Not to bad mouth some of the cities you mentioned, but you should compare cities that are highly desirable with toronto and vancouver. I read SF is very desirable and very expensive. Much more than vancouver. Can’t get a 2 bd house for less than $800k. No where is under $200k there and taxes in CA are expensive. Same with Manhattan. I have to mention my DH would never go back to his hometown and he’s got friends there who bought homes for $300k to our $600k townhouse in the states. Bigger, nicer, and with a yard. But then tempting us with vancouver? Maybe definitely on par with what we’re paying so yes.
I really don’t know enough about US/Canada to comment, but I can emphasise. Australia’s housing costs are ridiculously inflated, and like Canada, we are a vast country with little living space.
I don’t know the average salary specific to my city, but I think average is something like $55-60k. Suburbian houses in my city average $500-700k. I mean, our home was $180k when we bought it, and now its valued about $700k+. And okay, to put that into perspective, our home is a big house, 4 bedrooms, 2 garages, 2 big living areas, rumpus, boat shed, garden and a pool. Now renovated to have a carport, and 5 toilets 3 bathrooms and yet another living space. We are in a popular Asian area, but 30 minutes drive from the CBD (which is considered some distance in our city where it’s 1hr to the very outskirts).But what’s ridiculous, is that 5 minutes down the road is a lot of brand new extremely tiny units, and they were worth $600k each (now “slashed” to $480k). And yet extremely old houses closer to the city, with single story homes on average sized lots and bad suburb planning, are also worth $500-600k.
A friend of mine is looking to buy her first home for under $300k, and the only homes she can possibly look at are on the outskirts of the city for small old homes in old areas. Other people I know are in the business of building their own home, and it’s easily costing them $1million+. Granted, the more you alter the home layout the more costly it becomes. But I remember when my dad used to talk about the cost of building homes to be $700-800/m squared, and now it’s $1200/m squared average.
Arrghh, so much more on my mind but I don’t want to go off on a tangent and clog your comments 😉
Ah, if only the prices were the same here as they are in Detroit, I would be a homeowner by now. I’m not really surprised at the difference in the prices between Canada and the USA, given the massive population and housing stock differences, and crash of their housing market. I will say, it’s depressing to see how big the differences are, especially when one is trying to save 20% for a down payment which would go a lot further somewhere else.
If you ever want to get into the property management business now would be a good time in the States. Try buying somewhere close to a university campus 🙂 guaranteed to have a constant flow of interested tenants.
I live in Boston and I feel the same way when I watch HGTV shows. My husband and I find ourselves ready to pick up and move wherever the couple is! We could have a mansion and a pool for our house in other parts of the country! It really just depends where you are in the US… Boston and places like San Francisco, LA, New York, those might be more comparable or possibly more expensive than Toronto!
“Comparable” means more than population size. Perhaps you should include average salary, crime rates, desirability etc. in to your calculations.
As I said, they were “unscientific” as I didn’t prepare any other variables.
Maybe it’s to make up for Canadians having universal health care. 😉
I read in one of the investing newsletters last month that housing prices have gone up from 80-150% in EVERY Canadian province over the last 10 years. It just wasn’t the quick ramp up that you saw in the US (and it still totally boggles my mind that someone would have bought at the peak of the market in some situations when it was obviously over-inflated, but I digress…)
Just generally however, housing prices should – and will – always be higher in Canada because of the components – labour, materials, transportation – being a higher cost. I’ve seen decent houses go up in Houston, TX in about 2 weeks, which would be impossible in Canada, and the construction itself is better in Canada. You don’t notice that there’s cracks to the outside in Houston, but you’d surely notice it in -40 in Canada. With respect to lot prices, my guess is that there’s less speculation in Canada (stricter borrowing guidelines on developers) and that there’s a greater control on the part of cities and development as well. That restricts the building.
There’s also a greater tendency in US cities to not have all businesses centralized in a downtown core – so you can live in an outlying area and have a reasonable commute to a decent paying job. Part of that is due to more manufacturing in the US vs. Canada and larger conglomerates that can have big “work campuses” (eg. Compaq, Fluor etc. in the US) – something you don’t see in Canada. So many factors that come into play and are hard to quantify…
Ohhh excellent points!!
I didn’t think about where the work was concentrated in the U.S., nor have I
checked the quality of the homes. Yet. Although if a home is made in stone,
I’m more likely to think it’s better constructed than wood.
canadian health care sucks, try waiting to see a doctor for 12 hours. or the get a ekg for 6 months. Dont let these dumb canucks fool you its crappy.
I think it’s really tough to compare real estate prices for the US as a whole, because it varies so much by region. BUT, as a non-scientific, just-for-fun look, it was really interesting to see the comparison.
I think your point about city options in the US is a really valid one for many careers. To keep doing research in my field after grad school, I will have options in almost every state, including any of the biggest cities and many “medium” cities (not taking into account job openings, whether people want to hire me, etc). But a Canadian grad student I met at a conference, in my same field, was talking about looking for jobs in the US after school, because she would basically only have 4, maybe 5 choices in Canada. For us, we didn’t want to do the NYC or California thing, but we still had several good options with a lower cost of living, and it’s nice to be able to make that choice. Some careers are a little more limited, I think, but if you aren’t in one of those careers, living in the US does mean you potentially have a lot of options.
I think the US is really the exception rather than the rule for house prices. If you look at the UK or Australia, their property prices are WAY outta control. Here in Christchurch, New Zealand, the average house price is $350,000. I’m currently looking for a first home at under $200,000 and all I’m finding are run-down holes, with very few exceptions – and this is in a city ravaged by earthquakes, where almost EVERY home has been damaged. It’s just insane.
Interesting article.
I wouldn’t say “gouged” because it’s just supply and demand. And I also wouldn’t compare Toronto to SLC. You’d have to compare it to DC, Boston, NY, LA, or San Fran.
I could live almost anywhere in the US for cheaper than I do here in Santa Barbara (a glaring exception is NYC). But not everywhere in the US has jobs. AND the US did have the real estate crash, which helps. I have a coworker who is buying a second home because he can afford it. Trying to get me to do the same.
(Our house is worth $200k less than we paid for it, so I don’t feel like playing Las Vegas housing roulette.)
I wouldn’t say Gouged either. In Toronto, if you list your home, chances are there will be a bidding war for your property. Especially in a really nice neighborhood, regardless of how much work has to be done on it. Prices keep going up because somehow people keep finding money to pay.
It’s funny that when you watch HGTV you can’t believe how cheap the homes are, and when I watch it, I can’t believe how expensive they seem! That is because I live in the Midwest, so the cost-of-living is lower than the coasts, but incomes are usually lower as well. You are correct: The U.S. has many more metropolitan areas from which to choose and some are very reasonable, but many of the coastal cities (Boston, Portland, Seattle, San Francisco) are very pricey. Also, depending on where you live, property taxes can be a killer. For example, in St. Louis, Missouri (where we used to live), West St. Louis County homes were more expensive than homes in the county next door (St. Charles County), but St. Charles County taxes were quite a bit more than in St. Louis County.
Depending on what you desire in a city, you probably can get more bang for your buck in the U.S.
You’re searching properties for sale. After a melt-down of subprime mortgage lending in one country and not the other.
Would looking at density, commutes and fuel prices etc. generally leave inner suburbia in Canada much more sought after. To contrast more comparable prices in each country you’d need to add quality of life issues into the mix too. I just find the post today a bit light. What’s the popn densities of these cities proper and what portion of the working popn actually live within that area? If Canada is more urban with denser smaller CBDs/ workplace concentrations the resulting fight for space may be far more intense than the USA. And that would be reflected in market driven pricing of housing.
It always amazes me when I watch shows on HGTV. Living in Vancouver really can scares you if you start looking at housing prices…
That makes sense that real estate prices in Canada would be more expensive than in the USA. Another question…would you say that the majority of people in Canada live in the cities? More so than in the US?
I totally agree with Mercedes. Utah is a relatively cheap place to live in the states and not a great comparison. i live in Northern Virginia about 18 miles for D.C. and a 2 bedroom 2 bath town home with a garage is in the $300,000 range. a 3-4 bedroom town home with a two car garage will run you around $450-500,000 and most single family homes start in the $500-600,000 range and go well up into the millions.
I agree with this post! I do think HGTV is a biased source for information but it is a representative of the fact you can get more house for the money in certain areas of the U.S.
The housing market in Canada is out of control price-wise. Thankfully I am renting in Toronto for very cheap and I’m in a great area. If I ever decided to leave the city, I might consider buying a house in London or Brantford. You can buy a decent starter house/townhome for $120-150,000 in either city. Ideally, I’d like to pay cash for most, if not all, of the house. Of course you lose the ameneties of living in Toronto but maybe by then I will need to get away from the fast-paced lifestyle. Who knows…
Unfortunately the density of our cities has made home values skyrocket. For a 20% down payment on a $400,000 house, you’d need to have $80,000. That’s not even considering all of the other fees, taxes, closing costs, etc. Some people could be saving a LONG time before they can afford to buy. (even if I had $100k sitting around, I think I’d rather it be sitting in long-term retirement investments, but that’s just me)
On the bright side, for anyone wanting to invest in rental properties in Toronto, Vancouver, or Ottawa, you’re almost guaranteed a tenant.
I think that Canadians are getting gouged by house prices. I watch Property Virgins on HGTV and the houses in Toronto are so expensive. I know that they are that much in comparable cities like NYC. However, don’t people make a lot more money in the city because of the cost of living?
Manitoba is only a few hours from where I live and the average price of a home is only 216K which is more expensive than here but not by much. I think it would be more comparable to the Minneapolis area and Minneapolis are is about half the size of Winnipeg.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the US and Canadian dollars are almost par now but that hasn’t always been the case. I’m not an economist so I don’t know all the details but Canadians still make more money than Americans, right?
We don’t all make a lot more money living in the city. I make 36K, and my fiance makes around the same. Others that I know vary between 27K and 65K (one of my 65K guy friends got cut a few months in because of down-sizing though). We’re all in our mid-20s. I only have one friend that owns their own condo, and they earn 110-120K (with both adults working). They are also the only group I know that had zero debt coming out of school, because their parents paid for everything, including their living expenses after graduating. That isn’t realistic for most of us, I don’t think.
How much more do Canadian’s make? At 36K, that’s not much house I could buy in urban areas. In the east coast provinces, it’s also cheaper, since they are low income areas, a lot of fishers and tourism dependency for income. Sure, we could save up for a few extra years and then move to the east coast for a house (or to windsor! They had 45K homes!), but then we lose out on the lives we’ve constructed here. I’m not the type of person that finds that exciting or appealing. I like to set down roots (whether it’s at my job, or my community).
I thought Canadians get free college education.
No, Americans make substantially more. These are figures before our currency bounced back and superseded the Canadian dollar again, and also before our job figures recovered.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
Great analysis, but you are missing something important. Just like Canada, most of us don’t find the majority of living options ideal. I have no intention to ever move to Salt Lake City where houses are much cheaper than my hometown, Denver. I could move to places like New Mexico, Iowa, or Michigan and buy a house that is much cheaper than here, but I probably couldn’t find a job that gave me similar pay.
Compare Toronto prices to New York City, Los Angeles, or San Francisco to get a more fair comparison. I would compare Vancouver prices to Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, or Denver to get a more reasonable comparison.
I am currently looking at houses near Downtown Denver, and for a 1,000 square foot, 2 bedroom house I am struggling to find anything lower than $220,000. I could go to a far away suburb and find something bigger for that cost, but location is everything in real estate.
So be careful comparing Toronto or Vancouver (one of my favorite cities in the world) with Texas or Utah. I would move to Toronto or Vancouver in a heartbeat over Texas or Utah. But right now I am just trying to move 10 miles north.
You obviously don’t get the article at all. Go and look at the population figures of the cities you named, and the population figures of the largest cities in the US and Canada.
hmmm a lot of factors play into US home prices. Including the recent ‘historic’ crash in real estate, which did not happen in Canada. Not yet . For Canada, one thing plays a big part in my unscientific opinion. Outside investment and population growth. In Toronto, this area brings in some tens of thousands of new immigrants a year, especially from the Asia who seems to come with a lot of cash and quickly buys into new homes in the surrounding suburbs like Brampton. The construction industry is booming and there are new developments everywhere. In Vancouver, Chinese investors, especially from Shanghai , are parking all their money in Vancouver real estate for some reason. You are looking at spending 1 million for 2 bed room 2000 sq ft homes now. Crazy. I guess that’s demand and supply basics.
You didn’t show home prices for Florida, but it’s dirt cheap there and in Arizona as well. In the New York area, it resembles Vancouver. It might make better sense to live in the US. If you make pretty good money, then it’s less taxes, cheaper homes, bigger country /market but it has it’s downsides too I guess, like buying health insurance and such. But if you have the extra cash it shouldn’t really be an issue.
I believe in general you get a lot better bang for your buck living in the US, especially through saving on the taxes. Taxes are the largest annual expense of any individual or family so my unprofessional and unqualified advice is to make most of your money there 🙂 .
I just feel like it’s cheaper in the U.S. overall, although a lot of factors
do exist. To me, Canada is overpriced just because we have to be in so few
cities. It’s a big factor no one thinks about.
Canada also has 1/10th the population of the US. 30 million + vs 300 million +.
Yes and therefore the USA has economy of scale. Go read up what economy of scale means. 90percent of why USA is cheaper is because of low taxes (capitalist) and economy of scale.
Agree. The area grew up in, that no one wanted to move to, now can cost a min of 350,000 (250K if you are lucky), to 600k, because it’s ‘close’ to Toronto. Annoying because you get all sorts of people not interested in the community, but just want a bedroom ‘close’ to Toronto.
I know you weren’t trying to be thorough or scientific, but it seems like there is so much variability in housing prices, it’s tough to compare. Friends of ours bought their house the same day we bought ours five years ago for the exact same price. Their house is in Kitchener, ours is in London (for those not in Southwestern Ontario, about 1.25 hours drive apart). Their’s is about 1/2 the size of ours, 50 years older, in worse condition, 1 bedroom (two if you consider the whole second floor area (only about 1/2 of the space of the main floor) a bedroom) 1 bath with a low ceilinged partially finished basement, ours is a 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath, full second storey and finished basement. They have comparable yards. Go figure? If things are so drastically different an hour down the road, how can we compare across borders?
The other thing I wonder about is the whole “mortgage interest is tax deductbile” thing in the US. It seems that generally, people will buy more house there knowing they’ll get a tax deduction, whereas we don’t have that consideration in Canada.
The most desirable cities in the USA are at least as expensive (if not more) than the most desirable places to live in Canada.
But you do have a point about a whole range of cities to choose from, and if you go beyond the biggest and most desirable places to live, you can get a lot more fo ryour money.
You must remember that city density and city life varies a lot. For instance, I live in the Boston-area. We have a dense population, and real estate is expensive most parts of the city. Compare that to Chicago, which has a larger population but is much less dense. The city life is somewhat comparable. Real estate is less, too.
I think it’s difficult to compare home ownership in the US, because many cities are fairly unique. The life you would experience in Dallas is much different than what you’d experience in Montreal, for instance, but you may get reasonably close to a similar life in Boston… Museums, universities, public transit…
I think basing your home searches off of population is a very unscientific way of determining that the price of homes in Canada is insanely inflated to the US. Yes we have more choices of places to live, but the cost of living in Salt Lake City pales in comparison to living in Toronto. You should look at a city that has a closer cost of living to Toronto if you want a real comparison. If you look at Washington DC (yes it is the capital city, but it isn’t the largest, or most expensive city to live in in the US) The only place you find a home in the $300-$400 range with 2 bed 2 bath (and probably not a garage, you’d have street parking) is in NE or SE DC. SE DC is a scary place to be at night, so I wouldn’t purchase there. and NE isn’t all that much better! Then if you go outside the city to a place like Potomac, MD (It is a little more affluent, but it has it’s “less expensive” areas) You can’t find a house that fits that criteria! (if you are okay with a condo or a town house, you can find 5 or 6 that are in the price range and have at least 2 bed/2 bath but again probably not a garage)
This all isn’t to say that I’m not understanding all the other points you are making, yes we do have a LOT of cities to choose from, and yes we do have a multitude of climates to choose from, but depending on our careers and where we want to be financially, we honestly don’t have it all that easier than you guys up in Canada. .
It’s why I said — Unscientific 🙂
I hate house prices, but I dislike renting more. Renting was great but I’m ready to settle, and unfortunately, can’t afford to settle in the neighbourhood I love, but I’m also tired of our apartment’s management, hate moving, and am unwilling to move a 100 gallon fishtank more than once!
My neighbourhood is at the very least, 500K for a house, and they aren’t exactly huge.
My friend and her husband bought a condo around Eglinton & Yonge, and it was 400K. For a tiny “2 bedroom” – more like 1 bedroom and tiny closet of a room – condo. There are numerous more “affordable” houses in less appealling neighbourhoods, but even some of these 400K houses state that they are “fixer uppers”, or “great for first time home buyers” (i.e. you’ll have to move again). Our max budget, once we have more of a down payment, will be 300K, and I’m simply hoping that can still get us somewhere on the TTC line, rather than having the extra expense of a car and Go train.
We had looked at some options in Ajax and Pickering (online only), but they’re still both going to be farther than I want to be, especially when a TTC pass is $111/month, but I would still need a metropass, plus a Go pass ($250), plus a car or city transit pass to get to the Go station. I’d rather that extra cash goes into a house in the city.
I have a friend who’s father wants to move to Toronto but instead of buying
the condo downtown he can afford, he wants a HUGE house with 6 bedrooms
wayyyyyyyyyyy up north. Just because of the space, although he would be able
to buy the 3 bedroom downtown at Yonge and Bloor.
And he works downtown!
*shakes head*
She was like: WTF? No one wants to live there if you have to commute
downtown to work!
I think it’s a fair assessment. I lived in Utah for a number of years (parents still live there) and you can get BEAUTIFUL homes for what I think is dirt cheap compared to a residence here in Edmonton. I mentioned in one of my blog posts awhile ago that the house I want — my grandparent’s home — is worth over $400,000. In UT it would be half that. Many of my friends in Provo, UT have bought houses already and they are young. But if you’re going to put 20% down (and let’s be real here, most of them didn’t) how much easier is it to save up $30,000 compared to $80,000? It’s kind of unfair.
I’m not sure if home ownership is for me though. I only want my grandparent’s home and that’s 100% sentimental reasons. I can’t afford it though, so it probably won’t happen, and it hasn’t really occurred to me to find something smaller and in my price range. I just don’t see the point.
I don’t want a home either because we move too much! 🙂
I think buying a home for sentimental reasons is awesome. Maybe you can save
up the money to buy it later.