You are in for a long, intense article today. I hope you’re up for it. 🙂
I’m sure you’ve all read that controversial article on WSJ by Amy Chua — Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior.
Few of things first:
- If you haven’t read it, I’ll wait here while you climb out from under your rock & do so
- It was blown out of proportion for the publicity of her book & article
- I don’t think she is a monster
- I don’t think she hates her children
- I don’t believe in everything she says, but I do agree with some parts
- If some of it isn’t true, why did it strike a chord in us when we read it?
- I think her daughters (and her) are stunning! I also covet their wardrobes.
Standard blog disclaimer:
I won’t tolerate being rude to anyone (including myself or even in reference to the article), talk civilly and argue your point nicely …..or face the wrath of being marked as spam! 🙂
WHAT I AGREE WITH AMY CHUA ABOUT:
- Hard work = Results
- Not letting them quit
- Expectations that you really try your best
- Loving your child by setting those rules which can vary (no playdates for example)
- Being the best parent you can be
- Setting rules and disciplining them (No means NO, not maybe)
- Encouraging them to develop skills like learning another language, an instrument, etc
- Do what you think is best as a parent, not what others think you should do
- Understanding that your kids are in the majority, not the minority — See Note 1
- Not building false self-esteem by calling them “gifted” or “special” — See Note 2
- Not treating them like an equal — See Note 3
Note 1: Understanding your kids are in the majority not the minority
This sounds counterintuitive because her kid is playing at Carnegie Hall, and Asians are considered a minority (and half-Asians even more so, I’d imagine), but what I mean is that you should assume you and your kids are average.
Thomas J. Stanley (whose books I love), writes about how the millionaires he profiles, are not high achievers who put a lot of stock into being smart in school.
This is all well and good, until you consider that millionaires are the exception, not the rule.
What are they, like 1% of the population? Or less?
And where are we? Well if you’re not a millionaire, you’re in the majority of the population with the rest of us 🙂
So wouldn’t you want your kids to have a general chance at doing well in life?
While I disagree with some of the extremity of Chua’s parenting style, we should prepare our kids to be hardworking achievers, because it is the best chance they have to succeed and thrive in life.
We cannot hang everything we have on general trends of millionaires or other success stories.
Stanley’s research on millionaires is a very small subset of the population, and while it’s interesting and very informative, it isn’t applicable to the general population.
We have to assume we and our kids will be average.
We also cannot force opportunities to happen, because there are so many variables we can’t control. Stanley also says that most millionaires are self-employed, but does that mean that you can only be a millionaire if you’re self-employed?
Heck no.
Grades and academic achievement are not everything.
I was not a stellar student.
I was great in elementary and high school because I needed those grades to get into the right colleges, but once I got into business school, I relaxed.
I didn’t try to be the best in my business classes, and I just weighed and maximized the balance of time and effort put into studying and the grades I got, to keep my status as an honours student.
And absolutely no one has ever asked me what I scored in Accounting. Ever.
Which leads me to my next point….
NOTE 2: Not calling kids gifted, unique or special:
This is something I have a dislike of.
I find a lot of parents subscribe to the idea that their kids are special, unique or gifted.
I’m not sold. I know we’re all unique individuals and there is no one else like us in the world, but does that make us “gifted”? “Special”? “Superior“?
I am skeptical of this kind of self-esteem building that is hollow, without a base of achievements to back it up.
If I was called “special” or “gifted” for just showing up at school on time, what does it mean if I’m the #1 student in the class? A goddess with magical powers to make sushi appear at will*?
*Actually that would be pretty freaking awesome.
If my parents told me I was special and amazing for just going to school, I’d think the rest of what they praised me for was not as important. Their words would hold no meaning for me.
Their withholding of praise until I did something well, was something that made me glow when I heard it.
This would not have been the case if they praised me for every stupid little thing I did.
I also think we set levels of praise too high for average expectations.
As mentioned above, most of us are average people, myself included. I don’t mind being called average. It’s the truth.
I’m not the founder of a billion-dollar company like Facebook and I didn’t play the piano like Mozart when I was 5.
My parents never called me special, unique, or wonderful.
They never even really said “I love you” to me. They didn’t have to, I just knew it when my mom would wake up extra early in the morning to make me a quick hot chocolate for something warm in my stomach before I went off to school.
You know what they called me? Clever and hard working.
Those are self-fulfilling prophecies in my book because when I did something clever, they told me so. This made me want to do more, just to show how clever I was, and to make them continue to be proud of me.
My parents built my self-esteem by pointing out and praising concrete examples of what I did to be hard working or clever.
Just showing up to class was not something they praised. It was expected I would go to class and be respectful. What I actually achieved above that was more important to them.
Even then, they told me not to stress or worry so much about grades. My parents would tell me to relax because I was just a kid and not to push myself so hard in school! 😛
NOTE 3: Not treating them like an equal
Apparently it’s the hottest new parenting fad as of the past 5-10 years: treating your children like your equals.
Almost every new parent I know of, has picked up a parenting book and tried to put this into practice. Some succeed, but the ones I’ve talked to, failed miserably.
Bottom line? They are CHILDREN, not adults.
They don’t know what’s right, wrong, good or bad yet. It is a parent’s job to teach and shape them into what you think are good values for yourself.
We have children for selfish reasons, because we have kids with the idea that we’ll be able to raise kids with our own culture and values.
We want to raise children just like us, because we think we think our values and culture are so great that it should be passed on.
Isn’t that just the most narcissistic thing you’ve ever heard!?!?? 🙂
I do want kids, but I am not deluding myself about this selfish part of wanting to be a parent.
My SIL (sister-in-law) tried to use negotiation on her kids to teach them how to act like her equal.
Guess what happened?
- Kids won’t eat any food they don’t like. Only pizza or takeout. No veggies.
- Kids are only doing the bare minimum (if that) for any activity, even fun ones like swimming.
- Kids will only eat dessert now, claiming they have a tummy ache.
- Kids have free reign in the house to do whatever they want. They’re little banshees!!
- Kids don’t listen to her any more. Why the hell should they? They’re equals.
…it goes on and on. They think they can throw money at the kids, make them go to the best private schools and they’ll end up as amazing adults. I have my doubts.
And this isn’t an isolated case either.. I heard of another parent reading the same books (or so it seems) and lamenting about how badly her kids are behaving now, and how she’s worried they’re not going to succeed in life.
I totally agree with letting your kid make choices, and to help develop, teach and guide them to have the best values and skills to navigate through life, but this is a strategy something I can’t understand.
Who’s in charge here, you or them?
To put it another way, if you want to treat your kids like equals, then don’t be surprised when they fight back against your rules and talk back like an equal.
For the record, I’m glad my parents treated me like a little kid. I simply didn’t know better, and they did. I’m better off for it.
WHAT I DISAGREE WITH AMY CHUA ABOUT:
- Building solid self-esteem in children is very important
- I hate the use of “Chinese” to mean all Asian kids let alone all cultures — See Note A
- Being harsh to your children and calling them garbage — See Note B
- Forcing your kids to do things they don’t want to do — See Note C
- Not seeing the bad side of all this excessive pressure — See Note D
NOTE A: Using “Chinese” to mean all kids and cultures
I don’t like “Chinese” specifically to mean all Asian kids. There are other countries in Asia you know, and those Asian kids work just as hard as “Chinese” kids.
I also disagree that this is exclusively a “Chinese thing”.
What she is teaching can also be present in other strong cultures who have that mindset, including Western cultures.
Canadians and Americans don’t have a specific culture. We’re a melting pot culture, and while Native Americans were here before us, both countries as they stand today, are a mix of all types of ethnicities, cultures and races.
Plenty of Europeans who immigrated to the New World, came from hardworking, get-down-and-get-dirty backgrounds, and they’ve made the countries what they are today.
Even more from all around the world are coming here and working hard.
We can’t just lump every “Western” person into one boat, nor can we say that all Chinese kids are amazing.
NOTE B: Calling your kids names
That stuff sticks.
I know she said that she worked harder when her father called her “trash” or “garbage”, but what you do to one kid, will not affect another in the same way.
My parents never called me names.
If they did, I’d probably have learned from their example and grown up calling them names to their face as well.
Respect is a two-way street.
NOTE C: Forcing your kids to do things
You can only push children so far. You have to let up a little, loosen, relax. Let them be kids.
Maybe this is why I’m not playing piano at Carnegie Hall like her daughter, but my parents never forced me to do anything I didn’t enjoy. They asked us to stick with it, to work hard and to give it our very best. To REALLY TRY before giving up.
If we hated it in the end of the 6-month to yearlong trial period, then we could stop. They never had to force us, and while my siblings all gave up the piano one after another, I stuck with it until the end.
My dad always says: Thank god at least ONE of them can play the piano today. Not all the lessons were for nothing.
We just had to try, and it’s the same thing with eating new foods — you just have to try it, not like it. Just know what it is, what it tastes like and then form your own opinion about it.
I hated sushi when I was a kid. I thought it was weird, gross to eat raw fish (ewww!) and thinking about eating seaweed was a big “WTF were they thinking when they came up with that” moment for me.
Look at me now, eating sushi like an addict. I don’t eat it every day, but I am much more adventurous food-wise, because my parents pushed me to give things a try.
But they never forced me.
NOTE D: Not seeing the bad side to all of this pressure
Many kids kill themselves (Asian being the highest, perhaps, I don’t have statistics on this) because they cannot reach those (too) high levels of expectations set by their parents.
That kind of pressure is really tough. It’s sad, and it’s not beneficial or a good side of all of this pressure.
Parents want to have kids be awesome, caring, wonderful individuals, but being realistic is something they forget as well.
What do I mean by that?
Not everyone can be #1.
Just realize that kids can be pushed to be the best of their abilities, but if they can’t play like Mozart at the age of 7, don’t pressure them or shame them into not achieving your high ideals.
It would be so sad to hear of all the other cases of children who felt like they were trash and didn’t live up to their parents’ expectations and turned out to be less than their potential today, only because their parents were too unrealistic.
WHAT THE HECK DO I KNOW ANYWAY?
My parents basically raised me with a very laissez-faire, chill out, do what makes you happy, don’t work so hard, be a kid, mentality.
They were not traditional whatsoever, and I was allowed to do pretty much anything I wanted.
No curfew, no rules.
The catch was that I never did anything to push that, and I never even tried.
When I was a kid, I was home by 5 p.m. from school (school bus), studying, reading, making my own dinner, doing laundry and fighting with my siblings.
I didn’t go out past 7 p.m. unless it was to the movies, and in those situations there was always a family member or a friend of the family to drive me there and back. I also didn’t drink, go to keg parties and do anything I wasn’t supposed to do.
It wasn’t something I cared about doing and I didn’t see the point, and besides…. I had homework to finish. 😛
I never tried any kind of illegal drug (still haven’t to this day, seeing as even a mild drug like caffeine makes me throw up), and I don’t drink alcohol unless it’s to try it, or if it’s cooked into food.
All of the above? Not part of my parents’ upbringing.
They would literally have to push me out the door to get me to get some sunshine. No pressure about practicing piano 3 hours a day.
My family loves to drink wine, go out at 2 a.m. (my parents stay out later than I do, even today!) and drink coffee. But they don’t do illegal drugs, at least.
They’re by all rights a “normal”, “Western” family in terms of how they brought me up, and for all of their mistakes and lack of rules, we all turned out to be decent kids for the most part.
BF marvels at the way my parents raised me.
He says all the books would say I should have turned out to be some delinquent drug addict, or lazy person uninterested in life, still wandering and trying to find out who I am.
His parents were a lot more traditional, and they really raised him in the extremes of what Amy Chua is describing. Maybe even stricter.
He wasn’t allowed any toys or fun as a kid because they were so tight with their money (they had it, just didn’t spend it). They were the ultimate minimalists, and believed that minimalism = no (things).
We turned out pretty much the same in the end, but the only time we clash in approach is when I want to tell him to chill out more and take things easy. Be optimistic, and don’t plan so much. My attitude drives him mad. 🙂
So in conclusion? You can only do your best as a parent.
Sometimes you do everything you can and by the book, but your kids turn out to be monsters.
Sometimes you don’t do anything at all, and go against the book completely, but your kids turn out to be beyond what you had hoped for.
The only thing is to try, and not give up.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
I am reading “The millionaire next door”. Love this book. And totally agree that “Respect is a two way treat”. My Asian parents never push me to do anything, and I still grow up as a good and successful person. I just started a new blog, visit me sometimes if you have time 🙂 http://littlemermaid11.wordpress.com/
Like at least a few of you, my husband and I also were laissez-faire parents.
We had family dinners, but our kids could eat or not eat whatever they wanted. (And that included candy.) They could go to bed whenever they wanted. They could study or not whenever they wanted. They certainly could have sleep-overs whenever they wanted.
All three of our kids seem to have turned out o.k. In fact, our daughter is about to start a combined M.D./Ph.D. program. (And despite being allowed to eat as much candy as she wanted, she’s never been overweight!)
I have not read the article and do not intend to. I agree with you- you can only do your best as a parent and I’ll add ‘hope it’s enough’. I have two kids- if I can raise them to try their hardest, not give up easily, if they want something to work hard to earn it, and to be polite I will have been a success.
As I say this, my 5 year old is playing math games on the computer. Her choice, not mine!
I completely agree with you! My parents were the same – they didn’t have many rules and I just don’t find breaking limits to be appealing. The only only only point where I differ with you is where you say that children should be treated like children. Yes, they should when they’re younger. However, once your ‘child’ is in high school, I think it’s time to stop pushing the dictatorial “you may not go out ever” and start negotiating and trading. That way, your children will learn the trade-off of their decisions and understand that meaning of consequences.
Her style of parenting is actually pretty common in middle-class “Western” (using her term, not mine) families in quiet towns like the one where I grew up, although instead of name-calling and forcing long hours of drills during piano lessons, these parents are more likely to exhibit the same behaviors at Little League games.
My parents also adopted a “laissez-faire” approach to raising children. You are the only other person I have heard use that term (with regards to parenting) other than myself!
I grew up in a pretty strict household and I think that I would like to raise my kids in a similar conservative fashion. I don’t believe that children and adults are equal, and neither should they be treated as such. Children need to be taught what’s right and wrong before they can make (most) decisions in life, and it’s the parents’ job to teach them.
And being an adult now, I can understand how sometimes, it’s much easier to “make rules” then to explain to your kids the reasoning behind each and every action. Some things you just don’t understand until later, and the important thing is that one has a good foundation to make these future decisions on.
Another point, I think is important, is that China (and other countries that Amy referred to as “Chinese”), are usually countries that have huge populations. And until recently, families in China were huge. Can you imagine running a household if everyone were an “equal”, or if mom or dad had to explain every decision to every one? It would be a disaster.
At the end of the day, it’s not about Western vs Chinese parenting techniques, or whose is better. It’s not about finding a one-size-fits-all-go-to-parenting technique, it’s about what works for each individual family.
I agree to that style of parenting (minus calling kids ‘garbage’ – no need for name calling anywhere – even if they are your kids). True, kids will run amok if they are allowed. My mom was like her to the T …minus the name calling. She was strict, stern, did yell at me if I did not get straight A’s, and would be horrified with an A-. She is famously known for asking me why i did not get an A+. (I told her there was no such thing. She retorted – well, you need to be good enough to warrant the creation of such a grade. LoL.) Jokes apart, yes, sometimes its stifling and in light of western freedom, parenting books galore and treating children like ‘individuals’ – it does seem harsh. But children..like everyone in this world, need to earn the right be be treated like individuals – by following rules, and showing…eventually, that they can be trusted to make the right decision. You can’t allow a 6-yr old to make a decision and then be mad that he/she did not make an informed decision. Comon…the kid’s 6! It’s called ‘parenting’ for a reason, ppl!
Yes I did read that article. Makes me apprehensive about parenting/raising a kid! My mum wasn’t the main rule enforcer in our house. It was my dad. He seemed so scary then… As with all parents, Asian or Western, I think he wanted what was best for us in life. His main thing was to finish school, go to uni, get a degree and then get a job. Also I am glad for his sacrifices to come to Australia because I don’t think I would’ve survived Malaysia or Singapore’s education system.
Great article! But I’m glad I’m never gonna be a parent.
I did read the article, and you’re right about it hitting us (me) for a reason. It makes one (me) wonder, am I too lax? Does she have it right?
I think all of us can stand to improve as parents. We won’t get it right the first time, and it takes a lot of trial and error and trying new things. But as long as we’re committed to doing what’s best for them, whatever that may be, that’s all that matters.
As long as they turn out happy healthy and well-adjusted, I say well done 🙂
One thing that stuck out to me regarded being good at something and wanting to do it. When I was very young, my parents pushed me to make good grades. The better I did, the more praise I got, and not just from them. I became used to doing well and started pushing myself. I am not sure about how hard she seems to be pushing them, but I do acknowledge that it is necessary because otherwise the child would most likely stop pursuing anything they felt they were weak at. It never feels good to fail.
The other thing is that parents push kids to be stronger at their strengths but sometimes neglect to help boost their weaknesses too. 🙂 It’s like a bodybuilder with great arms but weak legs.
I am always skeptical of any one-size-fits-all parenting formulas that make almost no allowance for individual character. Having said that, i do agree with you that mutual respect between parent and child is important as long as both remember who’s in charge. This isnt a power trip, its about guiding children on a positive path until they are capable of paving their own paths.
A very thought-provoking post.
I’m glad you found it interesting.
I really think the parent-child dynamic is important, especially to know who is in charge and who isn’t. Children like myself, FEEL like it was a good thing that my parents were really the authority figures in charge in my life. I didn’t necessarily feel like I could run to them for every little thing, but it was nice to know they were there.
My parents raised me exactly the same way. And as I got older, they treated me more and more like an adult, and I found I didn’t want to abuse that. My parents always had the opinion of “you can do whatever you want, but some of it has consequences. So think before you do it, is it worth it?” Which I find is exactly how the real world is. I couldn’t have been more prepared!
Parents who let go as their children prove themselves to be adults raise the best kids 🙂 You’re an example of that!
Oops – didn’t see my earlier comment and thought it didn’t go through 🙂
Your SIL is in for a rough ride once her kids hit the teens and think they can negotiate for anything!
When we have kids in a few years, they’ll have have to eat their vegetables. They won’t get pizza or junk food or dessert in place of those veggies – eventually, they’ll get hungry enough that they’ll have to eat veggies! I treat myself the same way. Sometimes I’ll be hungry and I’ll want to start snack on chips or crackers, so I tell myself if I’m really that hungry, I should have room for an apple/plum/etc first. If I eat that and then I’m still hungry, then I can have the chips. Normally I’m not hungry by then!
Also, parents should be parents, not friends to their children. No negotiation – small children don’t have the understanding needed to negotiate. When they become teens, they might be more capable, but even then it isn’t a negotiation. It’s not a matter of saying they can go to the movies if they do their homework first – homework is required whether or not they go to the movies. It’s not rude, unfair, or wrong to expect kids to meet basic obligations before considering anything fun!
She’s already in for a rough ride. The kids have cavities up the wazoo.
I am not sure we ever negotiated as children to wheedle out of eating vegetables, but my parents did push us hard to try new things and new foods… that was part negotiation I think.
When a Chinese colleague sent me the link to the article when it came out, she said that many, many Chinese people (like herself) no longer subscribe to this parenting style. She also said that she doesn’t think that Chua is “really Chinese” (not living in China as she has and not even speaking Chinese). I’m not sure about that, but I do know that she is far more lax with her own kids than I am with mine.
When my oldest son was little, the uneaten supper would go back in the fridge to be resurrected day after day – there’s not many things more frustrating than a kid that will hold food in his mouth for 3 hours and fall asleep in his chair rather than eat it – trust me, I learned my lessons and learned to modify things with the second. And lo and behold, the youngest one is far less fussy than the oldest. 🙂 And the oldest magically became inventive with food in his teens, so it’s all good.
I grew up in a family chock full of gifted people / geniuses, and although it’s very nice that people want to think their children are “special” – I don’t know that most people know the true downsides of that “specialness” – if they’re truly gifted, and my standard is probably higher than that of most schools. Academic potential does not equate to real life results. Most truly gifted people that I have known haven’t had it easy in life outside of the academic world. I could write a whole post on that – but won’t. 🙂
What I’ve learned personally? To focus on my strengths and compensate for my weaknesses. Get enough money and you can pay someone to cover off where you’re just not inspired to perform. But above all, to let my kids know that they’re loved and they have strengths that most kids don’t have nowadays – primary among those being the willingness to work. It’s quite amazing how far you can go with just some sweat and doing the best job that you can.
But life isn’t meant to be all blood, sweat and tears either. It’s a fine line, but coming from a family of workaholic minimalists, I think moderation in everything is best. 🙂
How did you modify things with your second? This is so interesting 🙂 I’d like to pick up your tips (seeing as you’re a great role model for me)
I very much agree that showing kid what their strengths are, helps them naturally build self-esteem, but praising them every 2 seconds is what my SIL does, and it now has made the kids lazy.
Really great article! I see a lot of what my mom did when we were young to be common sense in parenting. She did practice a few tough love scenarios – like screaming blue murder while grocery shopping got us a trip to our rooms without parole, and often resulted in us going to sleep. But allowing us to make some decisions when we were younger – like choosing between fastball and figure skating, or dancing and swimming, helped us decide what we wanted to do and what we liked and didn’t like. We weren’t equals (I’m not even sure we are yet even). But she was diplomatic. Even when my sister and I continued to work on our argument for why we should have our own phone line, even when the judge would hear the arguments, the decision was always no.
After reading her book and the article you posted, I’m inclined to think the media did what the media always does – and spun what was truth – her words – into what they wanted the masses to hear. This disappoints me constantly, as there are many mis-informed people out there, and the spin by media only leads to further mis-information, not to mention the belief that if it’s reported it must be true….this makes me wonder how many house-hippos have found homes.
I also grew up in a school system that had a “gifted” class. It was fine for me to be pulled out of class for extra work and skill development, but when I was supposed to be put in the “gifted” class my mom put her foot down…something about the inability to properly socialize with society, and the over emphasizing of specific skills in areas where the subject excelled, but under-developing, or overlooking those areas where they were weak. As such, I had a sense that I was a smart person, but learned that I didn’t know everything and that I needed my peers to bring different perspective to the task.
Like you I have areas that I agree with Amy, and areas that I’m not sure I would handle the same way…but alas, until I have children, I won’t actually know how I’ll parent. Being an Aunt helps a little, but again doesn’t give a true picture as I can always send the child home.
“we aren’t equals” <— I still feel that way, a bit. I defer to my parents sometimes, but other times… I yell at them because what they do to bring onto themselves FRUSTRATES ME.
I think even if the media blew it out of proportion, I love that it generated (and still generates) such an awesome discussion about something so personal.
When I first read the article about Amy Chua, I was furious. And then my friend read her book, and told me that the article really messed up. Her book was a memoir, and it was meant to show that while being too coddling doesn’t make a successful child, being a tiger mom isn’t the correct way to do it. This fact was made clear to me when I was playing music. The western person who was passionate on his own was always better than the Asian person who had been forced to play by his parents, even though both were great players.
I also know from experience that when you do something solely for your family that you don’t want to do yourself, you will resent your family a little bit. And this stems far into Asian tradition. Is it the best way? No. Is the exact opposite the best way? No. According to my friend, Chua concludes in her memoir that somewhere in between would be ideal.
I really want to read her book, but I hate hardcovers (too heavy). If it’s in ebook format, I’ll buy it.
I think passion is a big thing for me to have kids to believe in. Not to be automaton robots.
My parents pushed me into certain activities fora few years. Eventually I developed my own interests and went for those instead. No they’re not Asian parents. I just didn’t like the activities they wanted me to like. I didn’t like playing the piano, and I didn’t like sports. Anyway, I quit and haven’t playing since.
Anyway what’s so wrong with being average? If I wanted to have been a lawyer, doctor or pianist I would have gone for it. But I’m not interested in those type of professions no matter how well they pay. At the end of the day I just want to be happy, leave work at work, and have work-life balance.
Also if you are pushed into a certain thing by your parents how do you know you really love that thing or its because you were conditioned to love it? I think that if parents want their kids to be successful and not miserable like Michael Jackson or other kids whose childhoods were ruined then they need to encourage their kids but not force them.
I was saying more about being average as a general note… just because seeing other parents do the following:
1. Pay exorbitant amounts of money ($20k/year) for PRE-SCHOOL private tuition (as in, they’re babies/toddlers) when I feel like teaching them could be supplemented at home, and saving that money for when they are older and will need the extra tuition is a better idea
2. Think that their kid will became a famous surgeon or doctor or lawyer (yes, SIL in mind here)… when I’d be happy to see them grow up as warm, loving, well-adjusted kids.
A lot of parents have a lot of expectations early on that they’ll be amazing… but in the end, I’m observing that while some succeed, there are also others who are NOT pushed, who have the inherent drive in themselves, and the passion to succeed in what they love.
No formula that’s one-size-fits-all.
I believe kids should be disciplined, but I think more importantly they should be encouraged. There’s a Chinese saying that translates like this “failure is the mother of success” So a child should be encouraged not to give up something just because he/she hits a road block, but at the same time the child should be taught to understand that it’s ok to fail too once in a while. That’s how I was taught. My parents definitely encouraged me more than disciplined. I was an introverted, well-behaved and mature kid. I was already self-disciplined, so my parents felt they did not need to discipline me. Actually they encouraged me to play more and be a kid. I was lucky to be born to my parents now that I think about it. I definitely do NOT want Amy Chua as my mom 😉
Yes!! You and I probably had similar parents then *laughing*
Are you sure we aren’t secretly related? 🙂
Great post! I definitely agree with most
I’m replying to Jen M’s statement as an example, the refrain is found often, and when said by those yet to parent is often dismissed out of hand with a “you’ll see!” I want to give it a bit more of a reply, because having such ideals are great and necessary but parenting is NEVER simple. Like everything in life, behaviour is complex, both childrens’ and parents’ and if you think it is simple you haven’t taken in a larger perspective.
I want my kids to eat vegetables and other healthy fare. But I also do not want to force my children to overeat, eat when they are unwell, eat when they are truly not hungry. I want to encourage them to listen to their bodies. I want civil dinner times where our family connects. I want to eat with them in public in a way that is not intrusive or unpleasant for other diners. Sometimes I need to ensure they have a full belly to prevent problems down the road like a sleepless night (for me!) or really inconvenient snacking. Babies and toddlers cannot tolerate hunger or force themselves to eat if full, which is the best time to instil habits but also the hardest. All this adds up to the fact that sometimes vegetables go uneaten, food is left on the plate, sometimes they are forsaken by me for other goals, and this is NOT a battle ground I am prepared to wage every day. Pretty much any other ideal that gets touted about parenting can be broken down like this and it can totally do your head in if you think there is some concrete correct path out there to take. I’d say most parents are winging it and can only de-construct it like this in retrospect, and do not think it through so explicitly for every little thing.
I have pretty high expectations of my children’s behaviour and potential, but I also really value that we develop and maintain a loving close relationship where by in time the power imbalance is gone and while not peers, we can have a great adult child and parent relationship. It feels to me quite often that these goals are in conflict. Obviously I am trying to hit the sweet spot as I see it. Others see that point at different ends of the spectrum with different priorities for their relationship with their children and what they want to impart. I am loathe to comment on an overall vision because of that. You are entitled to a different perspective on life.
If having a rule breaking couch surfing son or daughter who calls you up once a day to tell you a joke means success for you, so be it. Neither that nor the high status career type who has no drive to have me in their life appeals to me. And like FB wrote, you don’t always get what you set out to create. I don’t have a firm vision of their future except I expect them to support themselves and their families (if they have one) and strive to be happy/content/successful.
So as for Tiger Mom, I agree with a lot of what she said but I find some treatment as really detrimental. We both share a drive to see our kids get on in life. There are lots of different lives to be lived.
I agree with you on a lot of that. My son eats his veggies. I make him. If he’s not hungry, he doesn’t have to eat, but I will save his veggies for him for later. As a result, he eats kale, beets, cabbage, carrots…the only veggie he doesn’t like is roasted bell peppers. So, I cut him slack on that one.
But it’s easy to say you’ll be that way. It’s another thing entirely to be exhausted after a long work day and have to fight your kids over dinner. The good thing is…I am not a short order cook. I know plenty of people who have one kid who eats anything and another who eats nothing. One style of parenting doesn’t necessary work for different kids. Then again, one of the kids who won’t eat anything freaks out if anyone tries to correct him and his mother “negotiates” with him because “he’s like me, he needs to be reasoned with.” Really? he’s FOUR!
You’re right!! I don’t have any experience with child-raising, but I do feel like I’d like to give it a try to NOT be fighting with my kids over dinner.
After all, my parents never fought with us.. I don’t remember a single time when I ever said: I don’t want to eat that.
If it was weird like octopus, my dad would try and coax me into trying it, but generally speaking, we cleaned our plates and asked for seconds. No fights.
My SIL reasons with her kids and I can see that with his behaviour, he’s slightly malnourished (VERY skinny), and his mouth is full of cavities.
This is a brilliant reply. I love hearing stories on how different parenting can be. I can’t say that my parents ever forced me to eat anything, but they did expect me to be adventurous.
When I read an article about Amy Chua a while ago, I thought she was quite extreme, but I did recognise some value in her ideas, which are basically the same as the ones you came up with.
I think it is really important that parents act as parents and exercise some form of authority over their children. One of the things that I’m very grateful for now is that my mother did not let me quit activities on a whim. I tried out different kinds of activities, such as korfbal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korfball), ballet, children’s choir, and piano lessons.
I started playing korfbal very young (when I was 5) because my parents met at that korfbal club, but two years later we moved and I didn’t like my team, and I also had become quite aware of my inability to play any sport that involves a ball – I really cannot see if a ball is headed for me or will miss me by 5 meters. So I quit, but only after finishing the season (which was the condition my mother set).
I wanted to quit piano lessons a couple of times too, but my mother’s condition that I needed to stick with it until the end of the school year meant that I couldn’t quit on a whim. After a couple of weeks my interest in practising and playing the piano would pick up again. I’m so glad I did not quit then (I stopped taking lessons when I moved out of my parents’ house), because playing the piano is one of my favourite ways to relax.
Korfball!! That is so cool and unusual. I think I’m with you on this one. I’d be useless with a ball and playing coordinated games. I’m far better at the piano, and like you, it’s a great way to relax.
One thing I can’t help but comment on is how we can’t really track the “success” of Amy Chua’s children. They both go to private schools which I’m sure Chua and her husband are well-connected with. If her children were borderline B+/A- they probably got the benefit of the doubt. Secondly, as I said above, Chua and her husband are well connected in society. Her playing at Carnegie Hall is definitely the combination of skills plus a phone call. It will be really tough to say that they turned out well when they already have an “in” at Yale (Chua is a professor there).
Aside from that, I do agree the fundamental idea behind her parenting philosophy: working hard produces results. This is the same thing that Malcolm Gladwell claims in Outliers. If you work hard, at least 10,000 hours of practice in anything, you can and will become an expert in it. This is where parents can come in and push their children to do practice as much as they can, or at least instill the seeds of that motivation to make them better.
That’s true. Her daughter got into Harvard though.. but as you said, it’s the momentum of all the connections and skills.
(LOVE Outliers.)
I come from a Chinese family (my parents immigrated to Vietnam in their early 20s, then immigrated to the USA in their 50s,) and thank goodness my parents were very relaxed. They did not pressure me to go to colledge, or have certain goals for my life. They told me as long as I am happy in whatever field of study I choose or not, they are happy. I still went to colledge, and I was an honor student WITHOUT much effort, and I worked part-time to support myself. I did not get a penny from my parents. I got scholarships & loans. The primary school system here is very easy, you just attend class, take notes, do homework/projects, and review the covered chapters & notes for exams, and that’s it. The grading system is easy too. I was born in Vietnam, and the school system over there make students go through hell. The teachers would test the students everything from the text books even the tiniest footnotes that were never covered in class.
By the way, I learned the alphabets when I was 12 – came to the states at that age.
Sadly my parents are gone, I will always miss them for the rest of my life. I will raise my future kids the same way.
Your parents sound so loving and kind. I’m sorry they aren’t around any longer. 🙁
While I recognize it was a great PR move, I just couldn’t stand how this was written to be so polarizing. IIRC, her claims are exaggerated; in a follow-up, she admits that she and her husband took her daughter and some friends on an overnight trip to NYC.
I think this article produced such extreme reactions not only because it was written to do that (well-played, Chua), but also because people have experienced this kind of behavior and have not had positive outcomes. A Chinese friend of mine who is very thin has been called fat and called out for being too dark (she’s just naturally dark, doesn’t tan) by Chinese relatives; she takes it with a grain of salt, but it’s really sad and insulting. Chua does have some excellent points, like the value of hard work, but she also is embracing potentially dangerous practices. In my example of my friend, what if she believed her relatives and became anorexic?
She does dispense some good advice, but if her goal were to give good advice, why not write about things in such a less extreme manner?
For me, it was painful to read someone embracing the stereotype of the “dragon woman” just to earn some extra money and gain her 15 minutes of fame.
I see your point, but I also think as she wrote the article, the editor must have made things seem more sensationalized.
I’d like to read her book to judge that for myself.
(Also, that thin/dark thing? Yeah……….. I’m not surprised. Fair = Best, and Thin = Not thin enough… sadly.)
I thought this article was fascinating. The part that resonated most with me was when she talked about how nothing is fun until you are good at it- she’s really talking about mastery and learning to do something well for the joy of doing it. IMO, the problem with allowing children to give up on things is twofold; firstly, it reinforces the idea that it’s ok to give up when something is hard and giving up means that you never actually get to the point of a previously difficult activity becoming easy and fun…which means nothing hard ever feels rewarding.
Great logic. That’s true that anything worth working at doesn’t come easily.. if not, everyone would be awesome at everything without really trying.
Maybe you need to write a blog post to explain to many of the venerable people leaving comments, the difference between “your” and “you’re”, “their” and “they’re”.
I am classified as a non-native English speaker, and seeing all these “Westerners” (what a shame) making these elementary mistakes, makes me wonder.
Don’t get me started 🙂 My BF is a non-native English speaker and it drives him mad sometimes.
With their/they’re there is also ‘there’…
The other ones are its vs it’s and other such contractions that seem to trip people up.
Radical perspectives will always sell more books. Yes, I go that far as to imply that she probably radicalized her views in order to sell them better. After all there is the goal of superiority to achieve..
I wouldn’t doubt it, but I’m sure she didn’t expect such a backlash.
I’m with you on this one. When I read Chua’s article, I was immediately filled with mixed emotions, which you’ve so neatly outlined here for me (thanks!). Providing love and support hand-in-hand with discipline and rules is where it’s at – balance. Like you, though, that’s how my parents raised me, so I might be a bit biased. 🙂
You’re welcome 🙂
Parents have a hard go at it!
sorry, here’s the link to the David Brooks article. It’s short and sweet
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html
I tend to agree with David Brooks on this one (link below, he goes head to head with her parenting style).
“I wish she recognized that in some important ways the school cafeteria is more intellectually demanding than the library”
I do think it’s important to teach your kids to be tenacious, not give up, and strive to be the best, but not to the extent that she describes it. Kids need to learn how to handle failure….failing in the real world happens a lot. You’ve gotta learn how to pick yourself back up and keep moving. If your kids are succeeding all the time and they’re “the best” at everything….they will melt down later in life when something doesn’t go their way.
Like I know…I don’t even have kids. But seriously, kids need to know when to give up and move on, when to be tenacious and stick with it, and they need to know how to fail.
Entrepreneurs fail *all the time*……we don’t hear about all the ideas that didn’t work for them, we only hear about their successes. But, they know how to adjust and try new things when they do fail. I am not sure that Amy Chua’s kids will know how to handle failure in their adult life, and that could be a problem.
Thank you for the link!
I definitely agree with pushing them, but understanding that children have limits. Failure IS an option. A good one to learn from, in fact.
The most frustrating thing about that article was how it portrayed westerners. It’s general practice to believe that you can’t be racist against a westerner – apparently, we’re the ones that hold all the prejiduce. *Snort*. I found the many prejudices offensive. I never had that view about chinese people – that they’re kids become more successful. I think I’d want different things for my children then she would obviously want – I’d want my kids to be successful, yes, but nice people & contributing members of society first. If I called my kids garbage thier likely to be spiteful, rude individuals. Maybe a cultural difference, though. I was raised in a different environment and I’m on the right track to become successful, so who knows.
I’m with you, but I should mention that she wrote “Westerners” as a general stereotype, just as “Asian” is the stereotype for Chinese.
I think she wrote that there are many immigrant parents who fall under the “Asian” mentality, but it’s more prevalent (and probably easier to identify) if you say: “ASIAN” and people associate it with math geeks and those who live in libraries.
Still, both views are unflattering. 🙂
This was an interesting article. There is no doubt, at least in my mind, that she has valid points about her parenting ways. Children should not be equals. This seems like a fairly new epidemic that has come about. I don’t think it was a problem for my generation and definitely not my parents. Like you said when parents are equals it opens the door for all sorts of behavioral issues. Disrespecting your parents just leads to disrespect and disobeying of teachers or the law. Well, any authority figure.
However, I am complete disagreement about name calling. This one does not make sense to me in the least. It is such an intentional way to hurt your child.
I read that and felt a bit aghast. Calling your child garbage.. my parents would have never done that. It would have just been “I’m disappointed. I’m angry.”
Well, my parents are Nigerian and a lot of what Amy Chua said I recognised from my childhood. I hated it when I was younger and yearned for freedom. I worked hard so that when I grew up, I could do whatever I wanted and not have to study maths on Saturday instead of going to my friend’s Spice Girl’s party.
On the other hand, my younger siblings get 10 times the amount of pocket money I campaigned for when I was their age because my parents have relaxed a lot more over the years. My siblings are very much into designer and popular brands and shopping and very much focused on how they look, which I don’t really care for (to my mother’s eternal shame). I never had the stuff they have, so I’ve never learnt to miss it. I turned out okay, but I don’t think I could impose my childhood on my children either. I guess you’ve just got to hope for the best!
I think you turned out wonderfully. Your mom WANTS you to be into designer things?? I’d think the opposite for some reason… perhaps it’s just my mom who is more into ‘quality’ than ‘designer’.