Not trying to stir the pot (okay maybe a little) but I am reading The Millionaire Mind right now, in the section about choosing Spouses and Mates.
On pages 248-249 of The Millionaire Mind, this is is more or less what I read*:
Do women search for men with high income producing capabilities? Gray** believes they do but men are different. Not only do they want to provide economically for women, they are also more likely to be turned off by women who are generating or have the potential to generate high incomes on their own. (Gray p. 51)
Women and men have the same five big qualities that they look for in a mate:
- Intelligent
- Sincere
- Cheerful
- Reliable
- Affectionate
Men want their spouse to be intelligent but only a minority became interested because of “income potential” or “ambition”. More often than not, the millionaire wives allow their husbands to take the role of main breadwinner for the family.
*I changed the wording of the above only slightly, as to make it flow better. The original intent is not masked.
**John Gray is the author of that famous series of books: Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. But this particular excerpt is being taken from “Mars and Venus: Do men buy love? Are women needy? (Currency – April 1998. Not a book)
That’s really interesting for me, seeing as a lot of people would consider me (yes, a girl) to have a lot of “income potential” and “ambition”. That said, I am not the breadwinner of the family, and neither is BF.
We share everything equally because we have the same income potential.
DO GUYS NOT LIKE GIRLS WHO MAKE MORE MONEY?
I know we all kind of know, or at least have experienced firsthand guys not really digging girls who make more money.
Here’s a response from Big Cajun Man of Canadian Personal Finance Blog:
(For those of you unclear with how Twitter works, I wrote the first sentence, and then he replied with: I’ll take Duh? for $200 Alex.)
And from that I came up with some cookie-induced, general theories that I shall now share with you:
WHAT MEN WANT:
- Men feel less like men if they don’t make more money
- Therefore, it means men put a lot of weight on salary as an indicator of power*
- Men need to feel ‘needed’, and with their big incomes that’s how they get it
- Men want to “win” the competition, even the salary game
- Men want their women smart/intelligent…… but not TOO smart, right? 😛
*I think society in general adheres to this principle. More money/income/salary = More power
WHAT WOMEN WANT:
- Women generally don’t want to be the breadwinner
- …or have the responsibility of being the breadwinner**
- Women who make more money are a threat to a man’s “need”
- High-income potential/producing women are doomed to be singletons
- .. or they should just lie until the guys gets to know & love them
- Perhaps say that they’re air hostesses, waitresses or an acceptable job***
**I do find a lot of women who are breadwinners, don’t enjoy being in the position. Men seem to enjoy it more. My own observation of course, nothing scientific.
However, I do believe that being a breadwinner puts a lot of pressure on you. I don’t like that kind of pressure (and I feel resentful as a result), but perhaps men don’t hate the pressure in the same way?
***Thinking of that Sex and the City episode where Miranda lies to some guy, and says she’s an airplane stewardess, not a lawyer. 😛
I should be thrilled I a BF who values an equal partnership so we can wholeheartedly support each other.
We cover our basic needs of shelter, food and household items 50/50.
This works for us because:
- Neither of us feels resentment about someone paying less than their fair share
- We make the same money and have the same income potential which helps A LOT
- We spend on common goals and have similar spending habits
- ..which means neither one of us is spending like a rockstar versus the other
- We LIKE IT. Enough said.
Way back when I posted about this, one reader (Anonymous of course) caustically said:
You two are acting like a bunch of roommates, splitting everything equally and not like a team.
Grow up.
My reaction was:
Er.. 50/50 to us, IS being a team. 🙂
We each put in our fair share and no one feels resentment or irritation.
There’s no mental ledger or count to be kept about who paid for what, when and if it’s our turn next.
Not surprisingly, I posted this on twitter last night, and got this in response:
I’m not sure what Scott meant but I didn’t care to clarify because no one gets to call me names, even jokingly. I blocked his negativity out of my twittersphere after that comment.
50/50 for us works to cover the basics. If there are treats, like being outside and wanting an ice cream cone, I’ll buy him one too. Or vice versa.
We don’t keep count for those things, because our basics are already covered equally, and we made the personal CHOICE to treat the other.
If one of us needs help, we’ll lend it. But we’re trucking along pretty well just the way we are.
I know it doesn’t work for everyone, and I am not knocking on your methods of what you all agree is FAIR. Different strokes, different folks.
NO HATING ON MY INCOME, HERE..
I haven’t had a problem with guys hating on my income, but then again, I didn’t make this kind of money until after BF and I were securely in a relationship.
He was actually the one who supported me into taking the leap to quadruple my income.
He said to me: If the money is there, take it. You are worth more than what they’re paying you.
When I landed my first contract, he was so proud, he took me out to dinner to celebrate, and he couldn’t stop smiling all night.
Then just recently when I told him quietly that I had a pretty good 2010, he hugged me tight, congratulated me and was genuinely happy for me.
Definite keeper, especially if the majority of guys out there wouldn’t be as thrilled or as supportive that their GF is making bank.
So a few of questions for you readers!
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
As a female engineer, I encountered some of this attitude back when I was single. I remember being with a group of colleagues, and one young man was talking about women he wanted to ask out… schoolteachers and hairdressers. It was like I didn’t even exist (and I’m pretty cute according to most people!).
To be fair, I think my reputation for not sleeping around also had a lot to do with why I hardly ever got asked out.
Thankfully, not all men have those hangups. I ended up with a fantastic husband. His income potential is about the same as mine, but currently, he is the stay-at-home dad while I am the breadwinner. We are fairly content with the situation, although he is actively pursuing a side income so that I can stay home for a year if we have another child. (I hate pumping at work! Sorry if that was TMI.)
Overall, not. Men don’t like rational, logical, practical, worldy women. It hurts their manhood and whenever they end up with women like that, they verbally or physically abuse them to get them to be housewives and mothers. Men always want to be the boss of everything.
I remember that episode from SATC! It’s true. Men want women that are intelligent, educated, and goal-oriented or at least have a decent career but they don’t want to be OUTSHINED. That’s the key here – they don’t like to be outdone by their partners. It makes them feel inferior and intimidated.
A man’s ego is more fragile than porcelain.
Women keep trying to climb the ladder, and don’t seem to realize that there will be slim pickings near the top. Feminism didn’t take hypergamy and biology into consideration. Women actually believe that hypergamy is a social construct. How sad that they can’t see what is happening before their own eyes.
Most women use another strategy that allows them to be employed, educated and married. They get a 4 year education in their early 20’s. By their mid-to-late 20’s, they snag an educated, employed man. Then they opt-out of the rat race, have a child or two and raise them for several years. At that point, they use their husband’s income to go back to school and advance/refresh their degree/qualifications, and then become employed.
By the way, men generally don’t care if women earn more money. That is an excuse women use to justify rejecting men who earn less. Stop telling us what we don’t want. You are wrong. I have never – and I mean never – heard a man say he needs to be the breadwinner. I have however, heard only women say that men need to be the breadwinner.
Women are to blame for being single. There are plenty of great men out there. Until you consider dating those who earn less, you are the only one to blame.
That’s interesting because:
a) It is a study I referenced, not something I came up with, so don’t get
all prickly on me! I didn’t SAY that men only want women who earn less. It’s
from the study.
b) Many men in the comments SAY that they need to be a breadwinner, so it’s
not ME telling YOU how to feel
c) I’m in a relationship and of the mindset where NEITHER of us should be a
breadwinner, it should be equally earned
d) You’re also generalizing about women as well, which is kind of ironic 🙂
—> “Stop telling us what we don’t want. You are wrong.”
e) There aren’t that many great fish in the sea past a certain point. The
pool gets significantly smaller as you get older, right after college when
people marry their college sweethearts
f) Why would women want to date a man who earns less? Maybe he’s an utter
bum who doesn’t do ANYTHING but expects to be taken care of like a child.
Nobody wants to be the mommy in the relationship
g) You may be an exception. Have you ever thought about that? Not caring
what a woman makes because it doesn’t affect your ego may be something that
a small select group feels is okay, perhaps even better (my BF included).
Perhaps the majority of men don’t feel the way you do, so you need to take
that into account.
Response:
b) “Many men”? Where are these comments? Do they outnumber the number of comments in which women expect a man to be the breadwinner?
c) Regardless of your mindset, one of you is the breadwinner. That is, unless you both have identical incomes. It’s not equal if it’s not equal.
d) I don’t see how I was generalizing.
e) Isn’t “great” relative? Yes, the pool becomes much smaller, and as a result, people lower their expectations. With women comprising 60% of graduate degrees, it’s not possible for all of them to snag a college educated man.
f) So a man is a bum if he earns less than a woman? Wow. I suppose that means over 75% of married women are bums, and most men are the “mommies” in the relationship. Why is it OK for a man to take care of a woman like a child? What’s funny is that women with your mentality don’t see the hypocrisy when you date/marry a man who earns more than you.
g) Spend some time browsing the internet and you will see that there are plenty of men who share my opinions.
You talk about “being single” as if it’s something bad.
A lot of us love being single. Both men and women are remaining single at higher rates than in the past few generations. Take a look at the U.S. census. Marriage just isn’t the gold standard of acceptability anymore.
A lot of this totally depends on whether you have children! You (and a lot of commenters) are focusing on how you split income and spending decisions from a completely childless perspective. Of course 50/50 makes sense in that case and of course a lot of men would like to see their girlfriends/wives bringing home some extra bacon to divvy up.
But I think a big part of this boils down to one fact: most men want their kids to be raised by a SAHM – just like they were probably raised. And on the flip side many women probably want to raise their own kids as well, even if they thought they wouldn't mind delegating that task prior to giving birth. So while men may love having a high earning girlfriend or wife, they may worry about an "ambitious" wife who could remain dedicated to her career once they have kids. Just as women value a high earning spouse who can at least give them the option of staying home with kids one day.
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You bring up awesome points Meg, but I think generalizing to say that most men want their kids to be raised by a mom and most women want to stay at home can\’t really be proven, I guess.
For me, there\’s no way I could stay at home and raise kids then try to get back into the workforce after 10+ years of inactivity. I still believe in the 50/50 principle after having kids, and while some women might be okay with the idea, I\’m not.
I wasn\’t raised by my parents, I was raised by my older siblings. Both of my parents worked and contributed to the household for the most part, and even when my siblings were younger, my grandmother and grandfather raised them, not my mom.
Why not have the father stay at home if the mother earns more money? Why would it have to be men making all the money? I know it sounds idealistic, but I\’d rather have a system like in Europe in some countries where the father stays home as much as the mother and they split the parental leave time.
My DH would LOVE me to earn 5x what he does and he'd quit! Hehe. Right now as we're job hopping cross country, who ever finds a job first is the breadwinner and the other the trailing spouse. So he has problems being the sole breadwinner or having a sugar mama. Our relationship has gone both ways.
FB, here's my thing, I think resentment builds with stay at home parents because they aren't on the same page for money spending. NOT because you are supporting a family. I know many men who know what they are paying for if they work and their wives don't. They are paying for childcare, home care, etc. Their spouses might do a lot. If they are both on the same financial page I have yet to meet a resenting spouse.
But I've also met a resentful spouse when they feel that they are both "overspending" and not able to budget.
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Hi there,
I have enjoyed reading your blog. I am impressed by your negotiation skills. I am horrible at negotiating – at my current job, I sort of know the type of salary that someone my level would get and I know the offer I received was below that. However, I had no leverage (I didnt have a job at a hand). Do you have any tips?
Different strokes for different folks! I read a lot about combining finances and really, I'm a control freak. I couldn't do it. My boyfriend was impressed that I owned up to that when we started talking about getting our own place. We came up with the idea of having a joint utilities account (rent, internet, home phone) and a joint savings account (for mutual goals like vacations). We each have our own money and contribute 50/50 to our pooled funds and groceries kitty. This "room mate" set-up works just fine while we're in university but I'm sure later on, it will be done by percentage. Right now my man isn't working. He both hates and appreciates it when I pay his way because I guess all men want to be the provider on some level. He is a good cook and I'm lousy, so I let him cook and he gets to provide a meal. We take my car because I can afford the petrol, but he drives. I do believe though that everyone should discuss these sorts of things with their partners. Nobody wants to feel like they are struggling to make ends meet or like a cash cow all the time.
Interesting, I know 2 men who only married their wives because they came from a rich family. I think it’s easier to catch a man if you clearly have money or come from money. men like money just like women do.
I think this is all really interesting! And really, I think each couple needs to decide what is best for them. I don't care how anyone else handles their money, why should I? (well, I care how my loved ones do, but basically just that they aren't racking up tons of debt. How they pay the bills is none of my business)
Hubby and I make the same amount of money right now. We both put our paychecks into a joint account, and use that to pay everything. I guess it works out to be that we both pay 50% of the mortgage/electricity/etc, but we also use the same money for other expenses. So, I guess I sort of pay for half of hubby's video games (some of which I play too), and he sort of pays for half of my makeup and stuff. But, both of us live below our means, and spend about the same amount on non-essentials, so it works for us just fine. We both have our old accounts still open with a little money left in them, but really just so that we have a backup in case something happens with our credit cards or something (I had a bad experience with my credit union in college, cancelled both my credit and debit card when they had a "security breach"), but we've been talking about closing those out and moving the money into an "official" emergency fund together. Or investing it. Anyway, we don't consult each other on little purchases on a daily basis, but we always discuss "larger" purchases beforehand. At the end of each month, we look over our spending together, and if one of us seems to be spending a lot on coffee (oops) or lunch or whatever, then we try to think of ways to cut back.
In high school/early college, I made more money than hubby, and I had a bigger education fund from my family, so I have less debt than he does. We're paying off our loans together, so I guess in a way I'm paying more, but I don't mind because it makes sense to pay off the high interest loans first, as quickly as possible.
It was interesting, before we got married, some people suggested that we not combine our finances at all, and each pay 50% of bills (generally either younger couples or couples that had been older/more financially established when they met/married), and other people recommended that we combine our finances and just discuss our spending
(generally older couples, or other couples that started out with basically nothing, and religious people).
That's what works for us, but like I said, I'm not going to judge anyone for handling their finances differently than us, as long as it works for both people involved.
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I struggled a bit with how to respond to this post without me sounding like a complete dinosaur, but here goes.
I want to make more than my gf. Maybe it's a male pride thing, maybe it's just a me pride thing, but I do want to be the breadwinner. Would I break up with a girl or discourage her if she earned more than me? Of course not. I just want to take care of girl that I love and for me, money is one of the measuring sticks of that. I want to be the breadwinner because I view myself as being good at making money and that's my contribution to the relationship.
I don't think this will ever be an issue with me though. I'm generally not attracted to women who are the confident powerful career types. I usually seek out the naive innocent ones that need a realist like me to guide them through the world. I'm stereotyping a bit here but I definitely have a "type" and that type doesn't generally make gobs of money.
I probably spend hours every day either thinking or talking about something to do with finance. I literally cannot get enough of the subject. It's kind of my thing and I view myself as being pretty good at it. I'd say just about every relationship has roles that become pretty clearly defined. I view myself as the money guy. That's why I want to make more money than my gf.
Oh I see where the Taylor Swift comes in then 🙂
You want to take care of someone then! I wouldn\’t really consider myself a confident powerful career type, but I do think a lot of people see me that way. I don\’t want to rise in the ranks (although neither does BF), and I would choose family/time over working and earning money.
I think whatever works for you and the future Mrs. Financial Uproar (Taylor of course)
For me personally, I enjoy being at home with le toddler and working on my business without having the pressure of being the breadwinner. The hubs enjoys working and has his eye the prize. That's what works for our fam. No judgment on what works for others. To each his own!
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When I met my spouse, we were both in the military, so the pay was the same. (Except for he was 2 yrs older and higher ranked.)
He left the military to go to grad school. So for 7 years grad school + a couple of years later (thanks to stock options) I made more than he did. But then I was encouraging him all along to ask for more money, more responsibility, and change jobs when his old company was going down the tubes.
For the last many many years, he's been making more. It's probably the narrowest it's ever been thanks to two increases I've had in the last couple of years.
Since we've been married for 14 years, we combine everything. We don't really have separate accounts, and he handles most of the finances. We discuss big purchases with each other first.
My friends who married later in life tend to have split finances because it's easier. We married in our mid-20's. I think the method that I like is proportional, but whatever works for you.
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Perhaps it\’s an age thing. If you were with someone when you were younger, you\’d be more apt to combine finances. But as you get older, the sentiment changes?
Maybe it\’s just because I\’m nearing my 30s that I feel that way. I\’m not in my early 20s any more and I have done the gamut on stupid mistakes.
I think 50/50 makes perfect sense when you are not sure that the relationship is a lifetime one. But I encourage you to consider merging your money once you've agreed that your relationship is permanent. I'm not suggesting that you abrogate all fiscal responsibility; you still need to be plugged into the finances and you should still get a 50% share in the decision making about the money. Note that the horror stories of being 50, divorced, and broke generally involve women who had spent the last 25 years ignoring their money.
Pooling your money is another way to leverage the power of teamwork in a relationship. Right now, each of you has to make money to pay their share. What happens in the case of job loss / illness / ect.? Your relationship will be financially out of balance. Whereas if all the money goes to the same pot, you will have the team problem of refilling the pot, not the individual problem of paying your way in the relationship.
I have to really vehemently disagree with you.
Our relationship is permanent. We don\’t even know if we want to get married but we will probably go and get the papers signed then have a big dinner.
I don\’t want to pool anything with him, and he doesn\’t want to pool any money to me either.
If everything goes into a pot, then I make more money or he makes more money and we RESENT having to support the other, it is not a healthy relationship for us.
I should mention that I haven\’t been telling anyone who decides to pool their money that they\’re \”wrong\”, or the opposite of what you\’re telling me like they\’re codependent or parasites if they don\’t pay their 50/50 share. I\’ve never said that.
So why would you make a comment like that in return? it\’s really quite hurtful to hear that just because we have our own way of doing our personal finances, we\’re \”wrong\” and \”not permanent\” and \”not a team\”.
In the case of job loss, illness and so on, I already said several times we\’d help each other out, but that doesn\’t mean we have to pool everything together into one big bank account and not keep things separated.
I think it\’s very important to have our own individual ways to pay for our fair share in a relationship. It\’s not like he asks me for $2.50 when he pays $5 to park his car that I am sitting in the passenger seat of. We\’re not in that kind of relationship.
We pay 50/50 for just the basics: rent, utilities, food and household, and our basics are less than $1000/month each (our $1000/month budget is if we factor in that we want to save and spend for fun as well).
Everything else is in the air and by our own choice.
Well, when I was younger – about 20 – I dated a guy and made quite a bit more than he did and it bugged the hell out of me. It didn't seem to bug him to have me pay for everything though. In hindsight, if I could have taught him to cook and clean, he probably would have made a good house husband. That was a "role" thing I was used to from childhood though where women didn't make the money and money ='d power and control to me back then.
I don't know about today, I think if I met someone and was working at the time, I would not tell him how much I made if he wasn't a big earner. Obviously if we ever co-mingled finances, I suppose that would be relevant but for someone new, it wouldn't be something I'd want to be an issue. I can't see ever co-mingling finances with someone totally though at this stage of life. And how much someone makes doesn't really tell me a whole lot about who they are. OTOH, I probably couldn't relate to someone like my ex, who was horrible at managing what money he did make.
I feel like you are the older version of me. Are you sure we aren\’t related? 🙂
I went through something similar. Dating someone and paying for everything while he was a lazy parasite. That probably contributes to why I\’m highly annoyed if things aren\’t fairly split 50/50 for the basics. I don\’t see why I\’d ever have to cover housing, food and utilities for someone else.
(Kids not included. They\’re a responsibility I\’d take on willingly and pay for.)
There's nothing wrong with splitting things 50/50. Why should anyone judge your relationship? My bf and I split things too, the only extra that he pays is the internet. But otherwise its split pretty evenly. I usually find that its younger people that are accepting of splitting things, different checking accounts, etc.
Its usually the older folks or those deeply religious that are offended by splitting things and separate checking accounts, not saying all religious or seniors are like this. I get that they're old fashioned but we need to do what works for our relationships and not judge each other.
But in a world of divorce (sorry to say it but its true) and where people frequently change partners, these days you have to be your own backup plan. That's why I won't share a checking account. Yes I love my BF and yes we have each others backs. Today he's taking me to the airport at 4:30am so I can visit my parents for xmas. He's a great guy.
You know what I think is being immature and not being a grown up?
What is unrealistic and immature is not realizing that life happens, people change their minds and leave each other, how many people thought they were with their soul-mates only to find themselves divorced and single again. No one goes into marriage thinking they're going to divorce each other. I also like the freedom of my own checking account, I don't know why I just do.
I have heard horror stories of women in their 50s and 60s who got divorced, had zero net worth, no alimony and had to go back into the workplace. btw I trust my BF 100%, he sees me checking into my online banking, he knows my passwords, etc. I know his as well, he often shares his bank statements with me. But I still like the freedom of my own bank account and he likes his freedom with his. No I don't want to think about what would happen if my BF and I stopped dating, it wold make me sad, because before he was my BF he was my best friend, but life happens.
Sometimes your loved ones die. I just want to be prepared for whatever life throws at me and I don't think that's immature. That's realistic. We also buy things separately that way we both know what we own, should we ever split we won't fight over the materialistic crap. But we do share our things. For example BF bought a tv that we both share, I bought new plates that we both share. Tv is his, my plates are mine but we share our stuff.
There's nothing wrong with it. We're a team, it works for us, and what you and your BF have works for you, and who is anyone to judge. Really. They're not in your relationship. Also when BF and I go out we take turns paying. Whether its takeout or eating out we take turns. Tonight was my night I paid. When I get back from visiting my folks it'll be his turn to pay for dinner.
When we used to go out, servers would give him the bill. I'm not sure if its because we live in Omaha and things are a bit traditional here, but yep they would give him the bill. So now one of us picks up the bill and we trade off.
Those horror stories about women in their 50s or 60s with nothing makes me really determined to be self-sufficient. Then for me, I can CHOOSE to be with someone of similar values, rather than having to rely on them. It\’s a better emotional arrangement than staying together just because rent is too expensive otherwise.
Great post!
BF used to make a lot more than me, but now just a little bit more. My living expenses are also less than his. The only things we split are vacations, entertainment and eating out. We split things about 50/50 – although he may pay a little more. We try to do it where he pays for a meal, then I pay for a meal. Or he pays for this, and I pay for that. Vacations, we just tally up total pooled expenses and divide it in half.
Generally, I think the men who have a problem with women making more, are insecure. I don't think that I would ever want to be the breadwinner – that's a lot of pressure.
I remember an old boyfriend was embarrassed when I paid for groceries at the store. And I didn't think anything of it at the time, but what he didn't have a problem with was me giving him the money ahead of time, and him paying the cashier. So I guess it wasn't the principle of it, it was the image for him. Never really gave it a thought until a discussion with one of my girlfriends about splitting money in relationships. She thought it was weird, and now that I think of it, it was weird.
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That story reminds me of a similar ex-bf. He\’d gladly pay if I gave him the money, but was embarrassed when I handed the cash over. So annoying.
It is really weird to be embarrassed about not paying. If you want to pay, pay. Or don\’t fret about it.
No idea on whether or not men prefer women who make less money, but since in general women are paid less, it's probably likely to end up that way.
We split things 50/50 for the most part. I think whatever both parties are happy with and consider fair is what's fair.
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Agreed!
I've already mentioned on my blog how things are currently split… (or rather, how he's paying for absolutely everything while I study for the bar. ;p)
But I know he would have no problem with me making more than him; he'd be thrilled for me (and for us). Then I could pay off my debt faster! And we could buy a house faster! And I would happily support him if he wanted to quit his job and start his own company.
Honestly, the men who have a problem with their wives/gfs making more than them have major insecurity issues. And probably control issues.
Also, wtf is with people who have a problem with you guys splitting things 50/50? For couples making approximately the same amount, I absolutely think that's the way to go.
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That\’s what I thought. Anyway, it\’s everyone\’s individual preference. Must be a generational thing.
I think that generally it is true. I know plenty of guys who would feel at least slightly uncomfortable if they could not have the bragging rights of making more than their wifes. I also know a lot of women who would feel odd making more money than their spouses. Thankfully I met and married a man who was not threatened by my brain or my income–our entire marriage [except for the times I had taken off work] I was bringing in more money than he, and not even once did he feel insecure about it. He is always happy about my new business adventures and the biggest cheerleader I have. After all, at the end of the day, it is OUR money, not MY income and HIS income.
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We split it as my income and his income, but we have a shared budget. I prefer that over pooling everything as \”ours\”.
If that's what works for you. I could not imagine doing that as a married couple. I had worked in banking and watched married couples do that and it was a nightmare. But, again, whatever works for you two.
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curious — how did it become a nightmare?
First things first: where can I get a bf like yours? Is there a mail order if I'm abroad? 😀
Ahem, now seriously. Right now I'm single, but I did have a boyfriend a few months ago. We didn't live together, but did go out and pay for stuff… so I guess that experience counts? 😛
Do men prefer women who make less money?
I've never been told any of this upfront. But whenever I tell guys I date, that I'm a programmer I get really uncomfortable reactions. Not always, but the vast majority of the times. Mostly along the lines of: oh so you're loaded, eh? So you make loads of money then… how nice, I only make x amount. Once I got a guy who started telling me how he made soooo much more than I, and that he had x house, and y cars, and had bought these on his own… and bleargh.
So, based on those experiences I'd say that yeah men are threatened by women who earn more then them. And they feel the need to prove to you that they earn a LOT, and will keep earning a lot. So you don't dump them.
How do you split money in your household?
When I did go out with the boyfriend we took turns. He'd pay one date, and I'd pay the other. He was slightly embarrassed the first time I did it (had to 'fight' for it), kept looking around and saying "what will these people think that I'm letting you pay?". It was really sweet actually 😛
But I'd assume that when I do have a more stable relationship 50/50 would be the ideal way of splitting the bills. I find nothing romantic in finance, tbh. And IMO, it's not supposed to be…
50/50? Income percentage weighting? One breadwinner?
Well 50/50 would be ideal, but if I earned more than him, then I'd probably pay for more. Mostly cause I like certain comfort stuff. Though, I'm not too keen on a guy who earns less, mostly because I'm scared he'd be either resentful, or take advantage of me. And no way there'd be one breadwinner! Ok, so if one of us would lose our jobs, then yeah it'd be OK to support the other till he/she finds a job… but that would be not forever.
Not sure if the last question is valid for me, but I tend to be quite firm when it comes to money. I am the firm believe that I will not be maintained by a man. 😛
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Sorry Vera.. no mail order BF catalog available. He and I met by total serendipity. 🙂
And they feel the need to prove to you that they earn a LOT, and will keep earning a lot. So you don\’t dump them.
Wow I never thought about that. Maybe they\’re scared you\’ll think: Gee you\’re a LOSER, I\’m out of here.
Interesting.
Fighting for paying
BF has no qualms letting me pay. Then again, we don\’t go out often, so it\’s usually to treat or thank him for something. And vice versa.
Not being maintained by a man
I like where you\’re going with this. I feel that way too. I just think it soothes everything over to feel less resentful, regretful, angry, whatever you want to call it, when it\’s 50/50 and no one says \”Hey but I pay more than you!\”
Right now I'm working towards a PhD in the social sciences, and my boyfriend of 4 years (a music major) is working a minimum wage job while trying to find a job in his field. For now we have the same income, and split everything 50/50. In the long run I'm likely to be the breadwinner, and we're both completely ok with that. We would also both be happy if he got a music-related job that earns more than I will as a professor, but it's somewhat unlikely. I'm not sure how we will split expenses in the future, but we'll be sure to find a system that we're both happy with. My boyfriend's mom has been the main breadwinner for most of his life, and so he has no qualms about being with a woman who makes more than he does.
I think people's feelings about gender roles and family structure are greatly influenced by 1) their upbringing, 2) their personal political views, and 3) their education. Obviously these three things tend to influence each other, so it would be impossible to contribute differing views on the subject to just one of these variables.
I very much agree.
Speaking of which, as I mentioned in my earlier replies, my parents had a bad set of combined finances for their marriage (my mom was clueless and had no control) and that has probably scarred me in some way. 🙂
hi FB, 🙂 I've always earned a lot more than DH, we've been together over 30 years and it's never been an issue or bothered him or I. Any guy that was threatened by that is not someone I'd want to be with. Right now i earn twice what he earns and for less hours. it's nor 'mine' of 'his' it's ours. we've also had time where each one of us has been out of work and had to support the other, to me thats what partnership means, sharing the ups and the downs
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I think what we (BF and I) have is a very unique or odd situation. We’re both in the same boat so to speak.
I think you said it best — a guy who is threatened (or in the other extreme, a parasite) — is someone we women don’t want to be with.
On paper I've always made more money than my husband, just by the very nature of our professions (he's a chef, I'm an accountant). However, due to some complications requiring us to support his mom, he has a few side hustles which bring him about even with me. He's never had a problem with being the lower income earner… however, he has confessed that he's worried about being able to take care of us if and when we start having babies, since a good part of his income is earmarked for his mom. Smart planning for the future is the key.
I love that he is side hustling to bring in money for his mom!!! That is incredible and super sweet.
Planning is definitely key.
I've had similar experiences as SS4BC. As soon as I mention that I'm an Engineer I usually get one of two general responses. "Oh wow, you're so much smarter than me (shuts down)" or "Oh yeah, well I've done…. (competing)". Not fun.
Working with men I've had the opportunity to sit down and talk to them about the subject, and quite honestly most of them have said they do prefer to be the breadwinner. It's a traditional masculinity thing for most of them. Some don't care, and others are happy for their significant other when they make more, but most of them prefer their traditional roles.
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That\’s really interesting. That they want to be the only income in the household.
I just want to figure out WHY they feel that way. Masculinity or not, there has to be another reason. Is it because they can\’t .. give birth to kids for example? Or what makes them want to prove that they\’re above and beyond?
My ex-bf wanted to be the breadwinner and me to b stay @ home mom (yay..that relationship did not last long)…
Current BF dun mind me being the breadwinner (I'd probably won't make as much as he does)..but he encourages me to my full potential and is super supportive in every decision I make 🙂 love him! We split by what we make… or pretty much even… if he buy dinner.. I buy groceries… or if I buy dinner,he buy groceries.. Vice versa… we haven't gotten into any arguments yet… so it works out pretty well for us 🙂
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Lemme tell ya, this is pretty spot on. It was really difficult dating once I made the "big" reveal: what I do for a living. Telling someone "I have a Ph.D. in Chemistry" puts the pressure on them to "compete" immediately.
Even current BF in our first conversation said to me "I think you're in a different class than me". And I said "I doubt that, let's just meet and see what happens."
It still bothers him I think that I make twice as much as him, but for someone with my education/experience I'm making a LOT less than I could. I chose happiness over money when selecting where I wanted to go for a career.
But dating is very, very tough because I want a man who can see me as an equal, and most educated/successful men (who I see as my counter parts) don't see me as someone they could take care of. They see me as financial competition.
For some reason though – LESS successful men have no problem just accepting me as the "successful" and enjoying me for who I am. They enjoy me for me. My entire dating life this has been true.
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DH doesn't mind a bit that I make about 1/3 again what he make (much like above, he'd be thrilled if I made enough to allow him to quit working).. He supported me (financially and otherwise) to earn the degrees that it took to make this salary, so I really see that as a joint benefit. We have pooled our money since we moved in together, never splitting expenses by percentages. Though that took some getting used to on my part (I felt guilty that I couldn't contribute much, since I was a broke student) it has mostly worked well for us. Now that I'm in a great job that I love, we are considering entrepeneurial pursuits for him that weren't feasible before. I can support him to reach his dreams now that I'm the breadwinner. Really, this makes me feel good, as I so appreciate everything he did to support us while I was in school for a long time.
I agree with others that cohort differences are important here. As more women become more educated and have the opportunity to make more money, I think this will become less of an issue for more men than in the past.
The only resentment I experience has nothing to do with income-it has to do with how much more I care about our financial goals, while often, he would prefer to think about them less and have more fun. This was the case when I made significantly less, this is the case now that I'm making significantly more. I don't see this as something that will change, and really, that's okay in the grand scheme of things. I keep an eye on the purse strings, and he makes sure I have some fun in life. It's really about balancing each other out.
I agree with Maureen. It may be a thing of the past. In today's world I can't imagine any man feeling bad that his female partner earns more than him.
Right now I'm a student, so my husband makes more than me (of course). And I think he always will, no matter what job I have. He gets paid very well, and scientists don't (generally). That doesn't bother me at all. And I know that if the situation was reversed he wouldn't mind it either.
We have a common bank account, what's mine is his and viceversa. I don't think I could do 50-50 in a relationship, but that may be just a cultural difference.
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Luckily, the Beau doesn't mind that (right now), I make more than him.
We have budget set up (you'd be so proud) with our shared expenses and personal expenses broken down. Right now I have our shared expenses split 50/50, with us taking responsibility for our personal ones. This is, primarily, ONLY so we know roughly how much money we each need to bring in each month to make our bills. (He works at a co-op. His pay minimum is set, but has the potential to bring in more.)
We're both of the mindset that–we're a team. Our money is OUR money in the end. One he has his credit cards paid off, he talked about the possibility of using that extra income each month to help get MINE paid off. And likewise, on months his income is less (like this month, when he just started his job and didn't have a full month's pay), my salary picked up the bills. Neither of us are resentful towards the other–he's very good about making sure that I can spend and buy the pretty things I want (since I AM the breadwinner), and I make sure he gets the toys he wants too. But we were both raised in families were the income was shared between father & mother, and all money was shared. Since we're pretty much family at this point, we treat our finances the same way.
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I heard budget and sniffled in happiness. 🙂
I do have my own personal expenses too. Girl things, like makeup he wouldn\’t ever pay 50% for. (Yeah I asked. j/k)
Wow 🙂 Your BF is totally awesome. You two helping each other is really great. For us, it was a different mindset. I never expected or wanted him to clear my debt, and he has NEVER had an ounce of debt in his life.
I love hearing how other couples work.
I guess a lot of it stems from me seeing that my mom and my dad merging finances was a complete and utterly unmitigated disaster. I have a lot of fear from that.
It's funny you mention parents with financial disasters– I feel like mine very much were that, so I want to avoid it. On the other hand, Beau's parents are REALLY good at setting funds aside for retirement, having emergency cash stashed around, etc. So it's a nice balance we both bring to the table–coming from similar, yet dissimilar backgrounds. (I think my parents living beyond their means came from the fact for the first half of my life we were military, lived on the base, didn't pay rent/utilities & that meant my parents had a lot of disposable income. Once they owned their own home & had to consider those things, it was suddenly… a big lifestyle change…)
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You and I have the same backgrounds then. BF\’s family was super tight with money. Like to the other extreme of my parents. I think with us, we ended up in the middle of our parents, not wanting to go one way too far, or the other.
That makes sense if they didn\’t pay rent or utilities, and they had lots of disposable income. It skews your view on what you can afford.
I earn twice as much as my "partner" (complicated), and it's tough. He doesn't care that I make more than him, and he wishes he could contribute more to our budget. He can't afford a 50/50 arrangement so he gives me the maximum that he can in cash and I use that cash to budget for the month. I REALLY want a quantifiable 50/50 deal because that's just how I like to budget. The inexact numbers are killing me.
I'm in the slight resentful breadwinner…basket 😉 Stretch of a pun.
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I think it\’s another story if someone can\’t afford it.
I hear you on that resentment by the way. Been there, done that.
I am also a budgeting freak, whereas BF is not. It would drive me nuts to hear \”I don\’t have a receipt for that. I just spent it on whatever.\”
I want everyone to be successful. My girlfriend. My mom. The stranger down the street.
Success is attractive, and it's good for everyone. I'd never be so petty as to be jealous of other people's success. there's plenty of success available to go around for everyone.
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That\’s a healthy attitude!
I've had a few awkward dating moments when a guy has realized I made more than him. After this realization I usually ended up picking up the bill more often than not. I actually agree with the study in some ways, a lot of guys have the hero complex and want to be the breadwinner. They want you to make enough that you're contributing but they're competitive so they still want to make more than you.
Of course, I'm currently unemployed and the ones with the hero complex now seem turned off by my reduced income.
My take is that the average guy wants an average woman.
Love this topic and this was a great post on it.
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Goodness you’re getting it from both sides.
I guess they want someone employed, but not TOO properly employed, as in making more money than they are. Smart but not too smart is what I called it.
This dating thing is tricky.
I find it interesting that majority of the comments are leaning towards the opposite of what you stated in your post….it leads me to believe that the men or women that would have issue with this probably do not read personal finance blogs and/or not your demographic reader.
I am going with everyone else on this…I have made more money then my husband and just this year he got a new job and is now making more then me but that hasn't changed anything about our relationship in the past, present or future. The more money we make individually the more money we have as a couple 😉
I think my demographic is too successful. 😛 You readers are all too awesome for your own good. Beating the stats and the status quo!
I see that too in the end. The more we make individually, the more we have as a secured couple for JUST IN CASE. He\’d never put me out on the street if I didn\’t pay my half of the rent, and vice versa.
This is such an interesting topic. My husband and I make nearly the same income . We also keep our household bills/rent/living expenses waaaay below what we make, so (I think like you and your bf) the 50/50 split is not really a stressor or anything that I even think about. He definitely has no problem with me making more or less as him and I feel the same way, we just both want to see eachother comfortable and happy.
If you are your bf started significantly more money–like double what the other one makes (and not as part of a transition plan liek going back to school) would you shift finances in any way? Treat eachother more?
That\’s a really good question.
I guess if me or BF started making double what the other makes… we wouldn\’t change anything, seeing as our expenses are so low at around $1000/month each, that it is doable on almost ANY kind of income, not just ours.
What I think we\’d focus on are the expenses. Can each of us afford expenses and some play money, comfortably? If so, then we don\’t change anything.
We wouldn\’t focus on what each other can bring in, income-wise, because we each worked hard to get to where we are today, and making one person pay more just because of an income shift, doesn\’t seem fair, especially considering that we aren\’t talking about minimum wage salaries here. We can each make enough money to survive on our own, and I guess I\’d feel penalized for making more.
A really good question, Zan. Thank you! 🙂 Let me think about it some more, and perhaps draft a post off it.
My husband and I have never really been in a situation where only one of us is working, so it's hard to know how we would react. I'd like to think I could handle being the only breadwinner, but then I would probably get all control-freakish if my husband was the one running the household.
We don't generally pay attention to who makes more (it varies every year, since my husband's musician income fluctuates). But if one of us has a pay increase, it benefits us both, so it's kind of silly if there is a battle over who makes more when it's really win-win.
It is definitely a tricky subject though, with a lot of ingrained cultural feelings involved.
Having been the breadwinner, I can tell you I hated it. BF also doesn\’t think it\’d be fair if he was the sole breadwinner either. And I cannot expect him to take that role if I won\’t, so .. you know, what\’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I obviously can't speak for all men but I have no preference with regards to a woman's income. If anything I think it would be sweet if she made more than me because I already make a healthy salary. If we were married and she were happy in her job it would grant greater career flexibility for me (selfish of me, eh?). That being said I don't care much either way: my girlfriend doesn't make very much at all and my only concern with that is how worried it makes her about saving. Plus side of it: the low income led her to asking me to help her budget! Budgets Are Sexy! Spreadsheets are fun! Excuse me, I nerded out a little bit there.
When we lived together we split fixed, shared household expenses 70/30 (our approximate income split). We made mistakes: I managed all the bills and just asked her for a check which disconnected her from household stuff, we lived in a pretty pricey place. Now that we're not living together she realizes how critical it is that she increase her income and is going to apply for a new teaching job that would result in a 35%-80% increase in income. If she gets it I would be just about as excited as her.
And as for smart women: the smarter the better as long as she's not too smug about it (self-confidence in intelligence is great though).
I think you and BF are very much alike then.
I\’m a total spreadsheet nerd, so I hear you on that.
What really helps with BF and I (with that single cheque and split) is he sends me an \”invoice\” that breaks down what we spent in each category. Then if I have questions, he says: Oh that was for the rice cooker. Or the can opener.
Then I just pay what I owe him.
Why did you two stop living together? Tell me to STFU if I\’m being too nosy, but I always thought living together meant we could ease the pain of expenses, seeing as they would be shared.
Not being too nosy, the internet can be pretty darn anonymous anyway. Stopping living together wasn't a financial decision, it was a relationship decision. One of the side effects was that it allowed both of us to get a good perspective on our individual finances though.
Oh I see 🙂 Thanks for telling me!
My husband told me he was attracted to me in part because I didn't expect anyone to take care of me! I didn't realize how rare that was. As it happens, we are both teachers, make about the same, and have chosen NOT to have huge incomes.
Of the 5 qualities–I am soooo not cheerful. I guess I'm lucky to have a spouse.
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Is your husband cheerful? Maybe you two balance each other out.
I\’m more cheerful than BF. More optimistic, which drives him mad. He\’s more of a negative \”realist\”. Brings my groove down. 😛
I earn a fair bit more than the hubby. I spend a fair bit less than the hubby. I am responsible for the financial management in the household. There is resentment there… I understand that my education is allowing me to pull more money in right now – buy it's been this way forever. I would prefer a 50/50 way, just to try and see if some of the resentments leave.
What makes me curious is that if women make more money and feel resentful, where are the men who feel this way?
I never really hear about men complaining about being the only ones bringing home the bacon. I was totally resentful when it was only me (with another BF).
But why don\’t guys feel it? OR do they just not voice it?
P.S. I can tell you that if things are 50/50 you feel a lot better. You know you\’re paying your half, and not subsidizing his
I can't believe some people are actually down on you for approaching your joint finances rationally and equitably.
I think you're right on the money (pun intended). Finances can be a huge strain on relationships and the fact that you and your dude contribute equally, have similar earning power AND attitudes about money puts you in very good stead. The fact that he encourages you to fulfill your potential warms my heart! You sound like a great team to me.
I am a woman and I'm the breadwinner by almost 11,000k USD. I pay the mortgage, the cars and the cell phones. He takes the groceries, the cable, gas and electric. We take turns buying dinner and have our own checking accounts. I do feel resentful once and awhile because I feel like I never get a break and HAVE to work a job I don't like to maintain our living. He feels sad that he can't provide more and help pay for more things. Although we have those feelings, I think splitting the costs so evenly is what keeps us sane. But, like the commentor Christy above said, my hubby would be happy if I made 5x as him and he could quit!
*LAUGH*
Sugar mommas, unite! Just kidding. 🙂
I hear you on the resentment. As I mentioned above, I was resentful of having to pay for things when it wasn\’t 50/50. It\’s the only arrangement that works for me now, even if I earned far less than BF. I just know how it feels.
I'm not exactly the breadwinner in my relationship but I do make more hourly than my BF. Since I don't work/bill 100% (I'm self employed), it almost evens out. We split things like rent 50/50, but I pay for more of the utilities mostly because they were in my name before. And he pays for when we go out and for more groceries.
Although mine says that he likes that I'm self sufficient, I can understand how it makes some men feel emasculated. Traditional roles dictate that they're supposed to take care of women and if their SO makes more than them, their "provider" roles are threatened. I guess they feel, why would women need them if not to "take care" of them.
I wonder if it\’s a generational thing too. You know, 50s housewives and men coming home to a cooked meal and so on?
At this time in my life, I don't really care if the Mrs. makes more or less money than me. I have been making more money than her since we graduated from college, but soon she will be making more (once I quit the corporate job.) I would love it if she can make more $$$. 🙂
We pool our money like the traditional household and does not keep track of %.
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Hahahha 🙂 You\’d love it if she made 5x your income and you could do whatever you want right?
Exactamundo!!!
(oops I replied to the wrong comment below.)
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I don't see how it matters who earns more money in a relationship. The way I see it is, If your ego is based on how much more you earn than your partner, then maybe you should not be in the relationship…or any relationship.
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I stumbled across your blog a few weeks ago and I really enjoy it. I'm learning a lot as I learn to take control of my personal finances. Keep the articles coming!
Thanks Paige! 🙂
I do think a lot of factors play into it, especially that competitive spirit that a lot of guys seem to have. Hard to say. Each guy differs 🙂
From 2007-2009, I was working at a startup where I was generously paid in stock and poorly paid in salary. During that time, not only was my wife making her regular salary, but her company was acquired, so she got a very large windfall. I was extremely appreciative of this.
Nowadays, I am back to working at a normal job with a regular salary. But I haven't forgotten that time when she had the sole income.
Glad to hear it!
Is it a positive or a negative thing for you to not have forgotten when she had the sole income?
I love the fact that my husband was okay with me making more money. But we had children and even though I made more money, he was in the military. I stopped working to raise our children.
Our finances were not divided, everything went into one pot. Of course now, I am not contributing monetarily.
Everyone has different ways of working with, and dealing with money.
Whatever works for both of you, that you both agree is FAIR, is good enough 🙂 No need to justify otherwise.
My husband and I go back and forth regarding who makes more money. He is a tradesman and some years are really good and some are not so good. All of our cheques go into one joint account, with a little held back into our own savings/fun money accounts.
I once asked DH if it would bother him that I would be making more money this year. (As an older teacher at school had told me she never took extra courses to upgrade her salary because she would have made more than her husband and he wouldn't have liked that!) DH said it didn't bother him at all – he'd be happy if I made 5x more than him and he could quit work 😉
*LAUGH*!!!!
\”He\’d be happy if I made 5x more than him and he could quit work\”
I know it depends on the man. But it\’s interesting how the general info seems to point to men not liking women who make more than they do. Even today, in this day and age.
All throughout my relationship with my Husband i have earned less than him. That was just how it was back when we got married, this made the decision to have children easier as the " Wife,s wage only contributed a small percentage to the household budget.
The modern woman, has every right to earn the same or more than a Male, a fact which some men can,t seem to get their heads round. Loved your post, keep em coming.
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Thanks Maureen.
You did bring up a good point about it being a generational thing, perhaps.
A lot of these self-made millionaires are not my age for instance, and perhaps they do come from an older time because that\’s just the way it was back then.