I was watching some of my favourite shows on video the other day and noticed something interesting:
None of them work in Engineering or the Sciences, and only a few are in sort of very male dominated industries.
Check it out:
Sex and the City:
- Carrie: Writer
- Charlotte: Art
- Samantha: Public Relations
- Miranda: Law (seen as a “male” career)
Cashmere Mafia:
- Mia: Publishing
- Juliet: Real Estate (maybe seen as a “male” career)
- Caitlin: Cosmetics
- Zoe: Investment Banking (another “male” career)
Lipstick Jungle:
- Wendy: Movies
- Victory: Fashion Designer
- Nico: Fashion Magazine Editor
Most of the shows up there focus on girlier industries: cosmetics, movies, fashion…
I mean come on! I am not saying these industries are not tough, difficult industries to be in, but they aren’t far off the mark for it being seen as more of a female-oriented industry.
Cosmetics? Art? Public Relations? Magazines? Publishing? Editor?
What they’re REALLY missing:
- Engineers
- Scientists
- Accountants
- Hedge Fund Managers (Juliet’s husband was one)
- Mathematicians
- Statisticians
- Information Technology
- Programmers
The above industries are the ones that have a very low percentage of women working in them.. but they are the industries that do have good wages and what are termed as “hard” skills or technical know-how.
There are shows for women working as doctors (Grey’s Anatomy for one), but none that I can think off the top of my head (other than crime shows) that deal with technical skills in subjects like Math or the Sciences.
And they wonder why girls grow up with a dislike for entering fields that deal with math, science or technology.
It just seems like there aren’t any roles in those types of popular, chick-lit shows that portray women in very unsexy jobs.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
I think its because many women are afraid to go into male dominated industries. Many women have this stereotype about certain professions such as programming, and partly I think that schools don’t really make math and science interesting, I don’t want to blame schools for all problems but their purpose is to graduate many students so they try to teach them the facts in math and science and graduate them from high school ASAP.
I used to think biology was boring but now as an adult I want to learn more about it. Schools don’t really make math and science relevant to the real world and how it can apply to someone’s life. I think in college there are more resources for students to experiment with in that regard.
It all depends on the teacher. I had an AWESOME Math teacher in school who made me want to do more and do better. I enjoyed it so much…
I watch(ed) a variety of shows, and a lot of them actually did have women who worked in scientific/technological fields.
Bones is an obvious example. Brennan is a forensic anthropologist whose cases sometimes squick Booth, her F.B.I. partner.
In Angel (1999), Fred (a girl, short for Winifred) was a physicist, and brilliant.
Castle has Kate Beckett, detective, and Alexis (Castle's daughter), who loves science.
I don't watch much TV, but I know a TON of intelligent, successful women in all sorts of fields in real life! I went to a math and science prep school for a few years when I was younger, and very many of my friends are in science and technology fields. I'm a little disappointed sometimes realizing that while almost every male student I knew there went on to STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) fields, only about half of the female students did. But quite a few of the women who are non-STEM still have degrees in research-based fields: for example, one of my good friends has a Master's in Counseling, and I recently finished my MA in Applied Economics (and currently work in sales forecasting).
While I was never a big fan of SATC, I really, really enjoyed Cashmere Mafia and Lipstick Jungle. Even though most of the women don't work in male-dominated fields, most of the women in those shows are still incredible role models who value education and career, and show the very real struggle for work-life balance that so many women face – especially women who value their careers the way these women do. The women in these two shows don't just work for money but actually wish they could stay home with their kids; they're really passionate about what they do and find fulfillment from their jobs. I wish more people in real life, both men and women, had careers that inspired them in that way.
My recent post Long-term Goals- November 2010 Update
Almost every girl I knew that went to business school with me, ended up in industries like marketing or advertising.
I think I preferred Cashmere Mafia the most out of all the three shows. *gasp* I know. 🙂
It\’d be nice to see a show like that air again.
I've actually noticed this for a while. This is the case in lots of movies and tv shows. Women are in fashion, the arts, publishing, event planning, or other jobs like that. And while those are fine jobs, you're right, there aren't a lot of female scientists or engineers in tv/movies. Well, the sexy, successful women are usually not scientists. Just side kicks, or minor characters are scientists, and then, they're usually awkward/nerdy.
I've met plenty of awesome women who are able to "have it all" while working at an engineering firm. They're smart, beautiful, successful, and are able to maintain a healthy work-life balance. They're my role models. I want to one day be as awesome as them 🙂
This television show issue just means we need to find some tv writers/producers who come up with better stories. How about: a group of sexy mechanical and aerospace engineers working at NASA to get the next Mars rover in action. I've already got a title: The Ladies who Launch. 😛
My recent post The Cell Phone Post
Bones 🙂 That show is the only one with super smart, cute, females.
OO! Ladies who Launch. HAH 🙂 You could make a bundle of that.
I think it just comes down to complete lack of imagination on the part of the show writers. The thing that gets me the most is the completely unrealistic portrayal of the lifestyles led by women that work in those fields. Take Carrie Bradshaw. I'm a full-time freelance journalist and there is not WAY I could afford half the things that Carrie buys with her one newspaper column per week gig income. In real life she would only be bringing in about $1000 a week MAX with that one job!
I think it sets unrealistic expectations for young women in what to expect from their careers, as well. Unfortunately being a freelance journalist means more sitting around in sweat pants killing yourself to meet deadlines – not so much the life that Carrie leads. But that's escapism I guess, which is what we want from TV.
Then again, what about The Good Wife? Totally love that show.
Also, as an aside, in the real world, publishing – esp magazine and newpaper publishing – is a totally male dominated field, once you take glossy mags out of the picture (which represent a tiny fraction of the publishing industry overall). Not female-oriented at all.
My recent post Winter wardrobe essentials that won’t break the bank
Valid point, but I think series like those are escapisms. I work in a lab and although I am interested in CSI or House, it's nice to watch someone else work in a different area to what I am working in. But that's just me 🙂
That\’s true 🙂 Very escapism, but it\’s still kind of: Wow they aren\’t showing the bad side of what these women are working in either
It isn\’t all fun and games.
Good point that you don't see many people as engineers or in IT on TV. period. I agree that it may be biology too- men and women's brains are just hardwired differently. Give me an engineering problem to solve and I would probably just stare at it blankly (hated physics!).
I too, hated physics, but I liked math 🙂 It\’s funny because engineering is all about math, but the two never met for me.
BONES!!!! She's in a sciency field. And I guess there are females in all the CSI shows, too.
Agree with Corianne – I guess not only are these more glamorous and traditionally female roles, they're also fields that creatives -the writers and producers – are likely to be familiar with.
BONES! BONES!
I forgot about her 🙂
Women in the shows I tend to watch are cops…a job I'd nev er consider. Not sure computer programmer is a very entertaining field…there was a movie with Sandra Bullock once about her stolen identity, though. Interesting idea you have here; do young women look to TV and movie stars as role models when choosing their careers? Where the hell does their family come into that picture – and what are career counsellors for???
That made me laugh \”what are career counsellors for?!\”
My career counsellor told me not to go into anything too difficult for girls. So let\’s … think about that some more 🙂
I only wish they had like.. a spy computer programmer girl or something like that. Like Angelina Jolie from Mr. and Mrs. Smith.
I'm back I did my research and found the links that I had in mind when I wrote my comments.
http://www.livescience.com/culture/091215-compute…
This is the one where they said the stereotypes of IT drive women away from IT fields. "Women don't feel they would fit in and so steer clear of computer-science majors and jobs, the researchers say…
In the first experiment, about 40 male and female students entered a small classroom that either contained objects stereotypically associated with computer science, such as Star Trek posters, video game boxes and Coke cans, or non-stereotypical items such as nature posters, art, a dictionary and coffee mugs. (The students were told to ignore these objects because the room was being shared with another class.)
Then, the students filled out questionnaires about their attitudes toward computer science.
In the geeky environment, women were significantly less interested than men in computer science, while there was no gender difference for the non-stereotypical classroom. Female students in the stereotypical environment said they felt less similar to computer-science majors than did those in the classroom that wasn't geeked out.
In three other experiments, two of which involved about 90 students each, participants were told to imagine stereotypical and non-stereotypical objects in various environments. Here are some of the results:
When women were given the choice of joining one of two all-female teams at a company, with the only difference between the teams being the objects found in respective workrooms, 82 percent of the women picked the team with the non-stereotypical workroom.
Male and female participants were given the choice between similar jobs at one of two companies with the only difference being the description of objects (either nerdy or generic) for each company. Both genders preferred the job in the non-stereotypical work environment, but women's preferences for the non-geeky environment were significantly stronger than men's.
In another similar job-position experiment, women were more likely to accept an offer with a neutral Web-design company while men had the opposite preference, choosing the stereotypically nerdy company. The more women perceived the stereotypical environment as masculine, the less interested they were in that company."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/16/business/16digi…
An article by the NY Times that talks about the exact same thing.
"Ms. Cassell identifies another explanation for the drop in interest, which is linked to the pejorative figure of the “nerd” or “geek.” She said that this school of thought was: “Girls and young women don’t want to be that person.”
I spoke with Ms. Spertus last week about her thoughts about the declining percentage of undergraduate women majoring in the field. “Women choosing not to go into computer science is fine,” she said, “if there aren’t artificial barriers keeping them out.” She lamented the recent decision of one of her outstanding computer science students who chose to major in nursing because of what the student perceived as better prospects for finding employment."
Interestingly enough the first programming language was written by a woman, my bf told me this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace#First_c…
Ah, yes, television stereotyping–one of my favorite rants! I personally prefer crime shows (Abby may be a bit heavy on stereotypes–but then, I am too; man, I wish I was better at math–being able to do a cool job like that would be so fun!)
It's really a shame that more realistic people aren't portrayed on TV–but then, as cute as it is to watch a minute long video of me playing with my guide dog, no one wants to do that for half an hour!
The sad fact is, real life and most real life jobs aren't that interesting–that's why people watch TV and read fiction; to escape the mundane world (that's also why they spend so much time online or playing RPGs, going on vacations to exotic locales, dressing in costumes, playing pretend, and so on–although not everyone does those things just because it's an escape from boredom).
And there are female scientists and mathemticians, though it is definitely rare outside of crime dramas and science fiction (maybe that's why they're my favorite genres). Because those are the worlds where it's "exciting" to be a math genius or ground-breaking scientist.
But then look at how people with disabilities are often portrayed–they're stereotyped, too. Not every blind person, for example has absolute pitch or excellent echolocation skills (though they can be learned to some degree). Or there's a pervasive idea that they all want to see, or are generally helpless if it wasn't for their amazingly developed other senses.
The only show that I know of that attempted (badly, I might add) to portray a blind person as somewhat realistic, was ABC's Blind Justice. But rather than demonstrate how real blind people gain skills to function, rather than rely on innate "gifts", the main character was portrayed as some sort of idiot who was unable to walk across a room without bumping into things.
Oops, sorry for the rant. My point is, TV is all about what people will watch and reality isn't it (yeah, reality TV? not real at all).
My recent post Here Comes the Bride All Dressed In
Bones. I forgot about BONES. Eemusings brought her up.
TV is definitely not reality, but kids are looking up to it as a role model career. How many people want to be designers or chefs after Top Chef or Project Runway?
Since the only TV shows I watch peripherally are Hannah Montana and i Carly (the little boy is behind the camera, the brother is a sculptor and the girls "perform"), and the only ones in the recent past are Deadwood and The Tudors (no techie females there! – well some technical skills which shall remain unmentioned in those shows) – oh and Dexter! Hmm, not so strong on the females in that show, so I can't comment on that, but…
Most of my favorite movies seem to have strong women in male dominated fields in them – Sigourney Weaver, Jodie Foster, Angelina Jolie, Helen Mirren, Joan Allen…
But you're right, there's been a huge influx of girly girl shows on in recent years – Desperate Housewives, other wife shows that I've never seen. People like to see things that are completely divorced from their real lives in their leisure time. So maybe women like to watch other women that have little else to do but worry about hair, nails and clothes. We all like to live vicariously through what we watch – I don't know what that means about my liking Dexter as much as I do. 🙂
I agree with your choices — women in dominated fields. I guess we both think alike 🙂
I feel as though everything is so unrealistic on TV and while *I* understand that, I feel as though kids are growing up with a warped sense of what is achievable and what isn\’t.
(I have yet to watch any season past Season 1 of Dexter. I just .. well.. I\’VE BEEN WORKING *laugh*)
I desperately wanted to be a scientist until High School. You're right, maybe if there were more positive television shows following the lives in female in technical fields like scientists and engineers, I could have been more driven to succeed as one. (I did snail mail some scientist's associations I saw in my elementary school science book but they didn't answer my questions and sent me back brochures.)
I discovered I will never be a scientist because I cannot do math. I loathe math with all of my spirit. Evey minute of math class was like an eternity in hell. (I have a notebook of angst essays and comics I drew about how much I hate math class during math class to prove it. One was published in the school's literary magazine.)
I feel like a shame to the female race, but I will never know math beyond the basics. (I do work in internet marketing and was the only female at the office for a long time.)
My recent post Thrift Share- Household Essentials
Hi Van I don’t think you need to feel ashamed. Many jobs don’t require math beyond the basics, unless you go into business, engineering, science, then you don’t need math beyond the basics.
I also hated math growing up but recently I’ve been brushing up on it, I’m an accounting major and I need to take a statistics class in order to graduate. If its something you want to improve on then do it. People get better at things they practice on. Sometimes you have to ignore your bad experiences and start over with a fresh slate.
I don’t want to push you but encourage you, you also might have a disorder where math might be harder for you than an average person. There’s a math disorder called dyscalculia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia
Anyway don’t give up.
(You are so kind. Loved this comment)
Math has nothing to do with being male or female because not every male is good at math and therefore, how can girls be?
But that stereotype that only boys are good at math is a bad one. I wish I was pushed more into math and encouraged by my parents.
I think your post (and the comments) make absolutely valid points. What I also find annoying in TV shows like these is the location factor. Does everyone HAVE to live in New York or another big city?! What's wrong with being glamorous in Eugene, OR, or Pasadena or Kansas?! And if it's not NY it's Washington or L.A. I live in a big city myself but I find that placing all the shows in the same location is redundant.
My recent post The Impromptu Guide
Oo good point. NYC seems to be a hotspot. Or L.A.
I agree with an above poster that not even men tend to have sciency fields.
One exception to the above is in NCIS's Abby – brainy and techie, she's got a punky/goth look but even I was into that for awhile.
But as a future engineer myself, it would be nice to see a show about women who can have it all. I'm studying architectural and environmental engineering; but I love to shop and buy/use makeup as well. Sometimes I chalk up some of my mediocre scores to being vested in fashion and beauty in addition to my studies.
That being said – there are PLENTY of networking and office scenarios in the engineering fields and while maybe it's not as in demand for tv as meeting celebrities or chasing down criminals; but you could definitely make a sitcom about it.
I think that’s what I’m more annoyed about — that women who are in science/techy fields, can’t be hot or into makeup, dresses, skirts.. that they’re all a bunch of brainacs without a sense of style.
Bones seems to be an exception (the show has many smart females).
Bones! Though that show falls into the criminal side. I agree with Mia.
Though here's something funny – I'm in environmental law, and any attorney with a B.S. LOVES to mention that fact, like name dropping.
what about Bones? A female LEAD actress who's an anthropologist. Rizzoli & Isles: female scientist/medical examiner; female cop. Law & Order: female lawyers, female detectives.
What you don't see on tv: female VPs of sales & marketing, female heads of biotech/pharma.
There are a few shows that feature brainy female leads: No Ordinary Family stars a mom who's a scientist; Bones stars a female anthropologist; Grey's Anatomy stars lots of women in very male-dominated specialties (like a woman as an orthopedic surgeon!!) But these are the exceptions and you're absolutely right that it's rare to depict women as scientists or engineers.
It might also have something to do with the people who write these shows or books. They might have more people around them working in creative industries, like fashion, the movies, writing, art (like SATC). It is always easier to use environments, careers, etc. for characters that are much closer to home.
Which is maybe also one of the reasons why many movies or tv series about technical/science matters are incredibly stereotyped.
Which is what turns me off. bette made a good point (commenter in this post) about women in those fields not into makeup or clothes and that sort of thing. Or being socially awkward if they are in sciences.. or whatever else.
So few exceptions of strong, confident, \”normal\” women who are smart too.
Also, medicine and law are considered pretty friendly to females these days. This is great, because they are powerful careers requiring lots of intelligence and hard work.
I have always found being a reasonably pretty girl in engineering was somewhat useful in the interview process (with grades/resume to back it up), but in the day-to-day work place, you still have to prove yourself a little more than an equivalent male. Not sure why, but I feel it is true!
My recent post Redeemed United Ticket Vouchers
I feel the same way. I\’ve always had to prove myself a bit more than other guys, which I guess speaks to my drive to work harder, be detailed and to try and learn as much as possible, as fast as possible.
To be fair, not a lot of men on TV are engineers or in IT …it's not as "sexy" to the average viewer as fashion, criminal law, advertising, working in an ER, etc.
That\’s true. It\’s almost like it\’s taboo to be in a very technical degree.
Plus, from a plot development standpoint, as far as meeting new friends and relationships, it’s just easier to work with characters whose jobs take them out of the office often and have them interacting with new people in new settings all the time, like in some sort of journalism/sales/events capacity.
Hmm. Yes. I can see that. But why not consulting in general in business rather than having it be related to fashion, art and style?
I feel like those industries are so tried and played rather than thought through carefully.
Yep that's one thing about chick flicks almost all the women work in fashion/creative fields. I think its because its more glamorous than having your main character with a ledger or a petri dish. Its almost like the scriptwriter can't fathom a woman working in IT, Finance, Engineering, etc. and have her also be stylish, + social.
But I will admit certain fields to me are a turn off and they're a turn off to many other girls. I actually read an article about how the stereotypes of intelligent fields like IT turn off women. They did an experiment where men and women went into two offices, one was decorated with gender neutral items like nature posters, another one was decorated with more stereotypical items like sci-fi stuff, both men and women preferred that gender neutral office.
A lot of women shun IT majors because they don't want to be thought of as nerdy, and because certain people who fit the "nerd" stereotype do major in IT it kind of confirms their fears. My bf works in programming, and his team is more diversified, but some of the guys do fit the programmer stereotype.
My bf has encouraged me to even take programming classes in college, and he actually thinks I would get paid as much as men if I learned programming and that being a woman would be an advantage if I went to interviews, their team only has 1 female programmer and she's in her 40s.
Anyway, I chose a finance major because programming would drive me nuts, you can do everything right and your program will not work for some weird reason, my bf has to sometimes spend hours figuring out what is wrong and I know because he works from home a lot and I know what he goes through. It can be very frustrating. Growing up a teen in the 90s I was attached to my computer and I thought about going into programming but I changed my mind because it would drive me nuts.
I don't mind working with guys but I know I would find programming frustrating. I also think that many girls are still very traditional even in the 21st century, many girls go to college and major in sociology or psychology (degrees that are very hard to market) and their plan is to either quit working after college, or graduate and work until they get married and have kids.
There's nothing wrong with being traditional but many women prefer to be family oriented, that's where their interests lie and they really wouldn't be interested in majoring in engineering, etc. Also some fields seem to attract one gender more than another. More women are nurses, more men go into construction. A lot of different things contribute to why women and men end up in different careers.
I do think a lot of it has to be socialization, but some of it is also biology. I hate saying that, when I was in psychology class we read about this study, where baby animals were given toys, I think it was baby monkeys, anyway the female monkey picked up the dolls and the male monkey picked up the trucks. But I think with humans its both a mix of nurture and nature.
If your mom is a doctor and your dad is a teacher you might be more open to the idea that men and women can go to any career. Usually highly educated people tell their children they can do anything and try to get them to go further in life. A child can also be brought up with highly educated parents but decides she would rather be a stay at home mom.
A lot of Ivy League educated women leave work as soon as they have kids. A few years ago the NY Times covered this a few years ago. Sometimes feminists accuse women of wasting their educations, but I don't agree with that, because an education benefits you no matter what you end up doing with life and besides feminism in the end is doing what's best for your life.
And besides children benefit from having an educated mother. I do find it interesting that tv shows don't at least make a heroine a scientist or an engineer, a lot of tv shows focus on the character's friendships, love live, her personal life, etc. and not so much the work life. I think you can be smart and sexy and responsible all at the same time.
I don't think this post made sense but hey its 5am where I'm at. 😛
I think your BF could be right. Perhaps these industries are more open to women because they generally don\’t go into them, and companies want to hire diversity.
I find it a bit sad that once again someone is not choosing an interesting option because of a stereotype. IT is a wonderful, exciting field, and guess what – I'm a female progammer myself and probably 50% of my friends that studied IT with me at the university (mostly male) never WANTED to be programmers. Guess what? They never had to.
This is the very problem of stereotyping. You think about a certain image, possibly just a certain task among dozens or hundreds within a field, and shun from it based on that image. Yet the reality is so much more diverse. You could be team leader, project manager, user interface designer, marketing person, traveling sales pitcher, whatever…options are endless, and in the end, many of them also match to options in other, "sexier" industries. Basically, you do the very same thing in the other industry – managing, planning, etc – but just get paid half the IT rate.
I understand that you did not find programming in itself something you'd like, and frankly, it's not necessarily something I'll do in my 40s – I'm getting more and more interested in the business side as I get older. But I do feel sad that women opt out of wonderful career opportunities because of an image of a single task.
BTW, as a woman in IT, you are both more likely hired and better paid, if you just dare to ask. It's one of the blessings of being unique. 😉
I think people think \”IT\” and immediately assume it\’s all math, programming and computers.
Not that there\’s anything wrong with that, but I think being in IT can be very interesting and less technical thank you think. I wholeheartedly agree with you and it\’s wonderful to hear from a woman in the IT field.
I didn't turn down programming because of a stereotype, but I didn't care for programming because it seems to me a frustrating profession. Coding, checking bugs, staying on top of a fast paced field isn't for me. I think it depends game programming seems much more interesting, so does animation, graphic design, I think even CAD design is more interesting.
But I think if you love something then staying on top of the fast paced field would be enjoyable. I think you are right in that we shouldn't turn off opportunities just because of a stereotype. I'm still finding my way in life.
Oh I agree with you. Programming gives me a headache. I am not suited for that kind of work. I\’d rather design user interfaces and the flow of something.