This article from Well-Heeled about a couple that divorced 25 years ago, really annoyed me.
Long story short, they divorced amicably, and signed papers saying they would waive all future rights to alimony from each other.
The husband re-married, and 25 years later, the ex-wife took him to court to get $400/week payments of alimony from his retirement cheque because she had no savings, no retirement fund or health insurance…….and and she WON!
The judge granted the $1600/month alimony. 25 years after they had signed the papers waiving all rights.
Most of the comments on Well-Heeled’s posts said things along the line of:
Why didn’t she get her act together in the 25 years they were separated?
She had more than two decades to save, become frugal, say “I’m on my own now!”
Why did she even think about taking her ex-husband back to court, 25 years later?
In my personal opinion, that’s pretty low. She wanted to milk the only cow she saw available, and she went after the ex-husband as a result. Even though they had parted on good terms.
Why did the judge even GRANT that request?
They waived all rights to any future alimony at the time of their divorce, 25 years ago. WTF?
They were even divorced LONGER than they were married!
Married: 17 years. Divorced: 25 years.
Which brings me to my next question:
Why the hell does it seem that guys always get stuck with having to pay for everything?
I am not saying this is a general rule, but it is a prevailing attitude that I am getting from some of my girlfriends that bothers me.
Some of my girlfriends think that just because they’re girls, they should pay as little as possible.
The guy should take care of them.
He should pay for all dinners out, all trips, treat them to gifts, spoil them with flowers, all in exchange for being with them.
It isn’t even really a question of them making less money than their boyfriends that changes attitudes.
The difference could be negligible, or nonexistent.
I know a dentist who is dating another dentist, and she still feels he should pay for EVERYTHING.
She doesn’t even reach for her wallet when the bill comes at dinner, and she complains if he doesn’t buy her a gift once every other week.
I also have another friend who says “That’s just the way it is“, having lived with her father who paid for everything in the home out of his pay, and her mother who just squirreled her own paycheque away, not forking out a single cent.
They own all the assets together, 50/50, and the parents both own and work at the same family business!!!
And of course, other girls who don’t work at all, and just stay at home sponging off their boyfriends or husbands, who bring home the bacon.
Or you read other posts like this eye-opening one by Retire by 35 talking about pre-emptive lifestyle inflation:
Yesterday on Facebook I was scrolling through a friend’s post and he was being giddy about some new toys that he bought.
He wouldn’t reveal what it was, so a number of his friends started guessing what he bought.
A new camera? No. A new laptop? No. A new car? No.
Nobody was able to guess it and he was really happy about that too. Many posts down his girlfriend chimed in saying that if he got new toys then she wants new ones too.
She started naming off the “stuff” that she wants him to buy her: the new iMac, a new car, a jetski, a house, and other big-ticket items.
She asked him when he would buy it for them.
I know both of them (the boyfriend and girlfriend) and they each make around 40 to 50 thousand a year while living with their parents. Both are older than me. Both travel more, buy more, and eat more extravagently than me.
The girlfriend has been pressuring the boyfriend for marriage and to buy a house for both of them to live in. She wants to start a family.
She wants the white picket fence and 2.5 kids.
She wants the shiny new toys and the hobbies to match.
I don’t believe they have much savings since they complain about being broke.
Lest you think I stayed silent…
I HAVE brought it up to them, stating that I didn’t think the guy always had to be on the hook for everything.
I also stated that 50/50 seems to be the fairest compromise to me, so one doesn’t feel resentful of the other.
But I don’t want to push it, because I’m not their boyfriends.
If he’s happy paying, and she’s happy taking everything, then all the power to them.
But what if he gets annoyed one day and says: “Enough is enough”?
It just isn’t fair..
I don’t think these girls are necessarily stupid for taking their guys’ money.
I think the guy is stupid.
But regardless of who’s taking advantage of who, the bottom line to me, is that it just isn’t fair.
Barring circumstances such as being a SAHM with kids to take care of, a woman should always have control of her own financial destiny.
Being a girl myself, I feel strange, “So why does a guy have to buy and pay for everything for the girl? Why can’t the girl step up and do her own thing?”
And so what if the guy makes more money?
I still pay my half, because he shouldn’t feel punished for making more money.
And vice versa. Trust me, I’ve been there where I was the one paying for everything.
So I cannot imagine that anyone (man or woman) in a relationship who pays more, doesn’t feel the slightest tinge of resentment.
I felt A LOT of it.
So much, that I started resenting the relationship and feeling punished for being in a relationship where I had to fork out way more of my pay just because my partner was not doing his fair share.
So how can it be that a guy would not feel any sort of resentment or regret?
My new attitude as a result was:
If I can’t afford to pay half on a huge loft apartment that he wants, then I tell him that this is what I can afford to pay each month for rent.
We either pick something smaller and within my price range so the percentage stays at 50/50, or he makes a CONSCIOUS, thought-out decision to pay MORE than his fair share, so that he can get the loft he wants.
Simple.
And if the guy has to pay all the food, utilities, eating out, trips, gas bills, etc.. then the girl has no right saying she ran up the credit cards into the red, shopping to cure her boredom of staying at home alone all the time.
GET A JOB!
And the girl, has no right to say that she can only afford to chip in $200 a month, when the bills are $2000 a month, and then goes out to buy a designer purse for $500.
To me, it just isn’t fair.
In my case, the guy bought new gaming systems at $500 a pop, but couldn’t afford to fork over money for food and rent.
Whassup with that?
You definitely MUST have some play money, like $100 a month, but if you can afford a $500 bag each month, you can afford to give $400 more towards the bills.
Edit: To be fair, I feel this way now because…
I’ve been there and done it on the other side of the fence, and I am just trying to shed some light on how a person might feel in that situation.
Male OR female.
As for the situation now, BF and I earn about the same kind of cash.
If we are both working full-time on contracts, we earn around the same amount ($16k – $20k/month)
We may only work for 2 months out of the whole year, as the case was for 2009 (I didn’t work at all, having made the cash last year and BF worked for only 3 months).
But generally speaking, we earn around the same kinds of rates (him of course, getting more contracts and earning more money per hour) when we work.
I guess I am trying to say that I don’t hold it against him that he has more experience, gets more contracts, and gets more money per hour.
He earned it, and deserves it.
Even if I don’t have that kind of money making clout, I just save my money and live off it for the year or two that I need to, because I am forced to manage my own money instead of relying on him to step in and save me.
But I think some girls in the same position might feel resentful of that fact, that they have to really watch their money more, if they earn less.
I should also say that our basic expenses are very low, so we bank a lot of cash when we make it.
With everything included: rent, food, and home stuff, we pay around $800 a month each.
And I am not trying to dispute what works for some couples: 50/50 in our case, and proportionate payments in other cases.
I am trying to point out that SOME women (clearly not all) seem to have an entitlement issues with money from their parents or their boyfriends just because they are women.
Their self-centered attitudes are what I have the real bone to pick with.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
I swear, I wish more people in general shared your ideas on this subject.
If girls think this way: “If they wanna take me to dinner or have fun, they gotta pay!!” You too broke to even be with a man… when nice guys want to be in a relationship they want to be with a women, not a prostitute, saying they gotta pay for fun night out.. sorry but its true if you cant pay atleast once for dinner or whatever.. that guy is just wasting his money.. and if his on that stage where he needs to save money… 1st thing to do is dump your unappreciated girlfriend. Hangout with friends who will actually pay for themselves and sometimes you, i feel like Friends have a better compasion of 50/50 or “i got you this time, bro (or girl)” idea then with girls being in a relationship.. wemon say to be treated equal.. but not when it is inconvenience to them.. most of them not all… saying this by experience
Most of the guys earn more money ,like my bf earns 4 times more than me! I can not afford going to expensive restaurants or expensive places for fun,but he always ask me to go for expensive things and he doesn’t pay my expenses! so if guys want to have fun they have to pay! I dont mind if I dont go out for dinner,and I prefer to have my dinner at home because i am in a stage of my lif that need to save money. If he wants me to go for dinner with him he has to pay!
No self-respecting husband or boyfriend in America would stand idly by while his companion pays the bill at the register. That is the man’s duty. Only if he has been invited by the woman should he allow her to pay the bill.
UGH. I am HORRIFIED by that woman's choice and that judge's decision. I think it's totally wrong.
That said, I found myself in the position (a pink-collar position, at that) of supporting my husband, who was too lazy to get a full-time job. No, it didn't start OUT that way – I'm actually smart enough to turn down an arrangement like that! – but I just wound up shoulder more and more of everything as he shouldered less. He is no longer my problem, however.
How about letting the children foot the bill. This woman used her kid's identity on top of her using other people's identities. The kid has judgments against her starting when she was 12 when dear old mom put utility bills in her name continuing on till last year. A 12 year old with bad credit and judgments against her which the State court finds acceptable along with the other identity theft the mother has committed. Little known fact if you have custody you can get away with ruining your children's credit.
sheriff's report on id theft of child: http://southdakotagov.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/fe…
All I'm sayin is don't be surprised when someone pays your way & then treats you like you're an object; bought & paid for.
I am a 34 year old woman. I moved to a new country a few years ago and married a wonderful man,who I love completely. Right now,I have to go to school to learn the language,it's part of the "deal" with the government for me to be "allowed" to live in this country. Mind you,this is a very wealthy country that really takes care of the people living in it-free college and even money each month to help out while you're in school,money to have a kid,money to have year off to take care of the kid,free health care,etc,so the laws are really strict.
Anyway,I am only able to work a very small,very crappy part-time job because of the language and my school hours.So,my husband has to pay for everything,pretty much. He pays our rent,the loan for the apartment (we part own) and utilities. He's also paying for his own loans that he racked up (mostly unnecessarily) from when he was in school. I do what I can with my measly $800-$1000 a month. I know this sound like a lot of money,but the cost of living here is quite high,which is why minimum wage is $20 an hour. I use my money for the food we eat,and on as much else as I can stretch my money on. I do almost all of the house work,and several other things. This is the way things are for now.
What I am trying to say is,even with my limitations on my income,I do not take advantage of my husband. I actually look forward to the days when I can contribute more to our household. I like being part of a team,both paying equally,or as equal as possible,even if it is only equal in percentages. I can not imagine having a man take care of everything. I tried it once,always with men I didn't respect,back when I had less respect for myself,back when I was much younger and more selfish. I could only treat these men this was for a very short period of time,usually only a few weeks to a month,then I had to end it with them because I felt bad about the situation.
I can't imagine that any of these woman feel good about themselves either,if they use men to pay for everything. The things they want men to pay for are just material things,meaningless objects. They're as shallow as the people who demand them. I have never had any female friends who treated a man where they expect anything from them other than love and respect. I have always avoided the kind of woman,or people in general,who are so self-centered that they demand material things from people in their lives.
Sorry for the rambling.
Rambling is good!
Being part of a team is what it’s all about, and thank you for sharing your story.
On what grounds did this judge grant this ridiculous request? Was the judge a man or a woman? Granting this woman money after 25 yrs of divorce is no different than giving a drug addict money to support their habit. This was irresponsible of whats suppose to be a judge. The judge just told this woman dont worry about growing up and being responsible I'll take care of you with someone elses money
I am not sure the judge is a man, but I am leaning towards my memory that it was a “he granted”.
We don't know all the facts. there is always the appeal process.
I feel the same way that you do. Women you let and even want a guy to pay for everything always baffle me because I feel like they’re depending on a man too much. David and I take turns paying for entertainment costs (for instance, if he pays for dinner, I’ll buy the movie tickets), but we split our living expenses 50/50. I like knowing that I’m pulling my own weight in the relationship instead of being a weight for the guy to carry.
@Katie C.: It’s not for everyone, I totally get that… but it’s the way that I feel comfortable in the relationship and BF too.
50/50 works for us. I still don’t like the proportional idea, just because I feel like I’d be “punished” for earning more money. *shrug* Maybe it’s because I have earned more in the past, and felt resentful of that.
A reader emailed me her comment, not being able to have posted it:
“Many men have been brought up to believe that it’s their ‘duty’ to be the providers. And that their wives and girlfriends are expensive playthings.
So I blame the patriarchy.
And many women have been brought up to believe that their husbands and boyfriends should ‘look after them’.
So I blame all parties involved.
Men should learn that they don’t have to be just a wallet. And women should learn not to be a Charlot”
Many men have been brought up to believe that it’s their ‘duty’ to be the providers. And that their wives and girlfriends are expensive playthings.
So I blame the patriarchy
And many women have been brought up to believe that their husbands and boyfriends should ‘look after them’.
So I blame all parties involved.
Men should learn that they don’t have to be just a wallet. And women should learn not to be a Charlotte but to be a Miranda.
.-= Joy-Mari Cloete´s last blog ..Your sexist writing style isn’t professional, dude =-.
An interesting post! My wife is a SAHM so I provide all the income, but I pay her a salary which she manages. We both have different responsibilities and can make choices on optional spending.
We worked out this system because it drove me crazy when my wife always had to ask me for things- I felt like her dad rather than her husband. Not a very healthy situation. Not to mention I felt she was always asking for far more than I could afford, and I hated having to say no. We also tried joint accounts but that was trouble too because it was hard to track expenses with both of use spending from the same account.
-Rick Francis
@Rick Oh! I like the idea of a salary… 🙂 That way, she can save her own cash and track her own expenses (something I love doing).
Way too many comments for me to reply to each individual one, but here are a couple I did want to respond to:
@Monevator: You make a good point that we’re transitioning.. But I think it’s more of when girls feel as though they MUST be taken care of, that helpless Cinderella thing that irks me the most.
I am not saying that I want to run around and make every woman change her mind, but I just wish there was more of a choice or a role model out there who says “Hey, why do we have to act like Cinderella? We can’t just wait around for a Prince to show up and save us. We’ve gotta do it ourselves.”
@Kristin: I never meant to offend you with the post! I did say that SAHM’s and other extenuating circumstances are to be taken into account, but it’s basically an attitude I see among my girlfriends that I am now dubbing the Cinderella Syndrome. 🙂
@yaya: You make a great point about the fact that it may not be so black and white.
But it bothers me that something you sign 25 years ago, can be considered flexible if circumstances change.
I agree that she should have turned to other sources, or figured out a solution without involving the court.
@Shawanda: I feel the same way now. That if *I* cannot afford it, and if it’s just on one income, it makes me feel very, very antsy.
I don’t like knowing that he could be in trouble, or I could be in trouble financially.
The same thing is happening to a couple we know. They’re living off one income which is ridiculously high, and if he loses his job, his new job will drop 50% in salary.
It makes me antsy just hearing that.@M.: I agree that once you’re married it’s all one income for the family, but it’s only if you both have the same attitudes and work together as a partnership.
A lot of women I see, think of men not as partners, but as sponges to suck money out of.
It’s sad but true. I had one girl say: Work it while you’re young and get as much money you can out of the SOBs…
I recoiled at the statement because I didn’t think of all guys as SOBs, and that kind of gold digger mentality shocked me. She ended up deserving what she got.
@Leelee: Hey, I’m not knocking it! 🙂 For sure, women cost more. My wardrobe, shoes, makeup, toiletries and jewelery attest to that.
But it’s also that we at some point, reach a level in our lives when we are just buying not out of need or necessity, but for want.
Our circumstances are all different, but my hair for example is v. low maintenance versus other women’s. I can pay for a $20 hair cut and have it look good, and if I pay for a $80 hair cut it looks amazing. But I can do without, if that makes sense.
I also use less toiletries and whatever else due to good genetics of which I am grateful for. And even then, I use the mid-range stuff (not cheap like Bonne Bell or something but not on the level of La Mer)
And all the jewelery, clothing and shoes I have? I don’t need any more. Period. I have more than enough to go for 3 months without changing.
It gets to that point where whatever else I buy that does not replace what I have, is just extra want.
I totally agree with you however. BF lives with just a bar of soap and 5 ugly shirts and 2 ugly pants. I can’t deal with that.
I think we’re going through a really difficult transition period, where we’re living off the morality of the past before we find a new morality/compass for the future. This is one of the weird outliers in this set-up; combined with the appalling probability of failure, it’s also why it’s genuinely very hard to make a rational case for risking getting married if you’re halfway solvent these days (unless you want kids, which I believe do best in the most stable environments possible, and which was possibly what everyone else realized for 2000 years but we’ve forgotten/ignored). It’s hard to write about this without sounding like a freaky pre-historic nutcase though.
.-= Monevator´s last blog ..Perfect 10 investing =-.
All this 50/50 behaving like room mates is fine in the beginning, and all the way through if you remain childless. But, too many times the relationship starts out this way, and then they decide they want kids. The wife is then left with two choices if the husband is rigid and won't change the rules. She can continue to pay her 50%, and pay someone else to raise the child. Or she can raise her own child, but have conflict in the marriage, and also be penniless to take care of her own needs (which is why many young mothers look like crap with no money for hair care or clothes).
There are stages in life, that need adjustments in thinking. It's so sad to see young mothers who cannot spend the time with their children that both the mother and child desperately need, because of some financial agreement she made before kids.
It's okay for one parent to be the breadwinner when the kids are young. When the kids are gone, they can go back to their pre-child arrangement.
But why would the woman have to pay 100% of the childcare costs?
It’s 50/50. If the woman doesn’t work, then it’s another situation, but if she works full time, I don’t see what the problem is with her footing half the bill for HER KIDS.
And please don’t presume to judge that we’re “behaving like roommates in the beginning is fine until we have kids”
I am taking a personal offense to that.
i concur… but i will say that in my experience men WANT to have women depend on them! i have owned my own place since i was 23 and i have only ever had ONE boyfriend who could deal with it. it has always bugged ALL of the men in my life. they might be supportive of it but often i hear things like “oh i’ll never have my s*it together like you do” or “oh i’m older than you and i’ll never own a house like this”. i HATE hearing that from boyfriends because i could care less about that stuff… who care’s who’s house it is? that’s what i bring to the relationship, i don’t hold it over anyone, it just is what it is. what good would it do us to have two houses?
i’ve also had this conversation more than once with male friends… it goes something like this…. they worry about “knocking up” some girl they are with and then having to “find a real job and support her”. while that might be the so-called honourable thing to do, i always think “WHO THE HECK SAYS YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT?” personally, i’d have no problem with a man staying home raising our children and me going to work, provided he does all the work around the house that needs to be done! i don’t mind! i would go bonkers being in the house all the time, cute kiddies or not. there seems to be something hardwired into the minds of men that they have to be the breadwinner, and that the best way to show your love is by buying things and providing your family with their wants and needs. while some of that might be true… i still don’t think it’s necessarily up to the man to do that, at least not to do it alone.
if you ask me, i’d rather be part of a team that works together, makes decisions based on each other’s desires (i.e. career, financial, lifestyle) and works together to make that happen for each other. my favorite relationship was one where i worked a ton of hours and he worked very little. his work was in the creative field and would never be your standard 9 to 5. he was making amazing progress career-wise and was following his dreams and was sooooo happy and pleasant to be with! i love my job and i love working long hours at it. i paid for most things. we couldn’t have been happier!!!!
mind you, i am beginning to think that i’m going about this all wrong as all my needy annoying girlfriends are all married and being taken care of…
.-= flirty30´s last blog ..fudged it already =-.
I don’t think gender should have to anything do with finances. I stay at home with our son because the hubs has a higher earning potential right now and we didn’t want to put him in daycare. I don’t do it because I’m a chick. I do it because it was a decision that we made as a family. And he never makes me feel that my contributions are less than his. He always says that I earn half his paycheck. He’s a gem! However, As far as the court case goes…That is sheer lunacy. I would love to hear the judge’s rationale for his ruling!
.-= Kristin´s last blog ..BonBon Deal of the Day =-.
I think you've managed to find the most mature way to deal with the situation! Good Job!
Though I do agree that the 50/50 approach is the best way to do things, the situation with this man and wife wasn’t as black and white as you introduced it.
Yes they both signed the agreement, and yes the judge ruled for her, but it’s not like she slacked forever and then came with her hand out. There are some medical situations that you can’t save up enough for, especially in the case that you lose your source of income.
I think the wife could’ve approached the husband and asked for financial help, like asking a friend for assistance, without including the court in their business.
I can only blame the judge for overturning a document that seemed to solidify the status. It seems sad that she had to resort to this and sad that the guy was stuck with the bill.
.-= yaya´s last blog ..Review: Revlon Double Twist Mascara =-.
i feel kind of disgusted and embarassed as a woman when i hear other women i know brag about how they make their men pay for everything. at the same time, can i really blame them for getting on the gravy train? personally i wouldn’t do it, because a lot of men will use it to get their way. and some women know how to override that, but most will let them have their way just because they pay for everything. no such thing as a free ride, ladies.
When I was with the former bf, we’d pretty much were equal, although I was a student for the first year. He did pay for dinners at first then the next time we’d go, I would pay that sort of thing. I still bought my own “toys” but that was out of my own money and I’d save up for it. I would’ve felt really bad if he was to buy me gifts all the time and the gifts wouldn’t have been what I wanted in the first place! But then again, if I see something that he would like, I would buy it for him. I don’t have much experience with the paying the bills stuff coz we never lived together.
I don’t get girls who “wait” for guys to buy stuff for them, and if the guy doesn’t- they complain! Seriously, just save the money yourself and buy it if you really want it that much.
.-= suzie´s last blog ..Buzzing Around =-.
Seeking alimony 25 years after your marriage ends. Now that’s disgusting. I too want to know what she was doing during the interim.
There was a time when I was looking to make a home purchase with someone who is now an ex-boyfriend. My salary represented about 40% of the combined household income.
I felt really uncomfortable with the mortgage he thought we could afford. If there was a disruption in his income, we would’ve barely been able to keep the utilities on.
In order for me to get comfortable, I felt like we should completely ignore his income when deciding on how much money to borrow for a home. I’m very conservative when it comes to borrowing money, so that would’ve meant we’d save for a loooong time.
It’s interesting because he’s a 50/50 guy. That’s fine, but I didn’t want to be obligated to subsidize a lifestyle I disagreed with.
He decided he’d buy a house without my blessing. I wished him well.
My husband makes more than me now, and that has almost always been the case. There was a few months in there when I was making more than him. I think it’s a little different in a marriage than a dating relationship, but we just pool all our money and then make decisions together on what we want to spend it on. I would NEVER expect him to spend more on me than I do on him. Take Christmas – we both have the same budget for each other.
Although I will admit, I make him pull out his wallet when we go out to eat. But the money comes from our joint account. I’m just lazy like that. 🙂
.-= JvW´s last blog ..Outsourcing Home Improvement =-.
Wow, that ruling is ridiculous. Can you even imagine the opposite happening (a woman having to pay alimony to her deadbeat husband 25 years after divorce?). I’m all for splitting costs 50/50 when salaries are similar. Otherwise it’s something that can be discussed (if one is not working for legitimate reasons, like childcare). Though I sort of imagine finances as being merged after marriage, even if there are technically separate accounts.
.-= Jean´s last blog ..Vibram Sprints — comfy but smelly =-.
It has happened. Look at the cases of Joan somebody who used to do "Good Morning America", and Joan somebody who is an actress and did the show about an 18th century women doctor. (Sorry I can't remember their last names). They both ended up having to support professional men who were completely capable of supporting themselves, and still raise the kids by themselves!
I've had friends who raised their little ones with NO child support coming in from the dad. Then in the teen years the kids went to live with the dad (no rules in his house), and the dads took the moms to court and received good child support. No consideration was given for all the years the moms raised the kids by themselves.
It's not always black & white. And, it's not always men paying for everything. Although a popular thing to do these days, we really cannot generalize on that.
my last bf was a millionaire (a complete DOUCHE, but that’s another story…) so i paid for nothing. ever (I’m at a job that’s just above entry level).
my darling new bf is around my age so we split stuff. the way i see it, if we ever get married (knock on wood), what difference will it make anyways, since it’ll all become shared income?
besides, i don’t want the boy to go into debt. that’s unfair and kind of ridiculous.
i have a girl friend who makes her bf paid for everything, so much so that he had to give up his apartment and move in with roommates b/c he racked up so much debt (that he’s STILL paying off!). it’s no benefit to either of them in the long run!
I SO agree with what you wrote. I’m SO fed up with the girls I know taking advantage of their male counterparts. Like they’d ask for rides to places treating their bf as a chauffeur rather than a boyfriend. And most of the time, it’s not even close distances. It’s like 20km or whatnot. For example, the bf lives at Point A. He lives 25km away from his gf at Point B. Girlfriend wants a ride to Point C. The distance between Point B to C is 3 km MAX. She expects BF to drive to Point B and pick her up, drive her to Point C and then for BF to return to Point A.
RIDICULOUS!
.-= The Asian Pear´s last blog ..TTC Metropass Discount Plan =-.
Let me start by saying that I’m by no means a trophy wife. My husband and I met while in law school and have been lucky enough to grow intellectually, as well as financially together.
However, as a woman, my personal expenses are much higher than my husbands. That’s not being high-maintenance; it’s just the way it is. In order to look professional and well-put together, I need a wide array of products and services, ranging from manicures and highlights to shoes and suits for every season. My husband uses the same bar of soap and two pairs of shoes, and buys a few suits every couple of years, and he’s all set. It’s not fair, but being a woman in a corporate environment is not cheap, and as a result of that, my husband’s paycheck probably pays for a lot more of our day-to-day expenses than mine does.
My bf currently pays for all our food and utilities, but it has everything to do with me being a full-time student and nothing to do with him being a man. Once I graduate and start working as an attorney, I’m looking forward to extending the same courtesy to him… He might go back to school to get his BA and I’ll happily cover the same expenses. It really shouldn’t be about gender, it should be about circumstances and supporting one another when necessary.
Re: the woman who received alimony after 25 yrs – that’s really a problem with Massachusetts law. I’ve NEVER heard of a case like that elsewhere.
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Right on. If it’s not 50/50, it should at least be well thought out, and proportional to what each party can pay.
Spending money you don’t have ($500 on a purse, when you should contribute $400 of that to your bills) is irresponsible, and a drag on the other party.
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Wow. I think it’s dangerous for women to let men pay for everything. Not only may they find themselves in a dangerous situation in the future, but it’s just not motivating for the woman to go out and do things on her own.
Now I believe being a stay-at-home mother is a different ballgame. I think this is a great vocation for some women and as long as she feels appreciated and is pulling her weight, it’s a healthy way to run a household.
But I know women who have ended up screwed because they relied on a sugar daddy. These men are kinda dumb as well. I definitely think that the couple needs to be on the same page and should pay for bills based on house much they each make. So if I make 15% more, it makes sense to me that I pay 15% than my husband would. It goes both ways, I think.
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I cannot believe that court case. Ridiculous!
Maybe it’s easier when you’re married, but my husband and I simple look at the money as both of ours. We have an agreed on amount to save and otherwise consult on big purchases. We end up saving a ton and never fight about money.
Not relevant to this post, but relevant to the fact that I love your blog a whole bunch…
…I just nominated FB in the City for a blog award!
Here it is:http://backtothenest.net/2009/11/04/first-nom/
25 years after the fact is just crazy! Does that woman not feel any guilt about what she’s done? I feel so guilty when the bf buys me gifts out of the blue; and I never ask him for anything. I feel like if I want something, I should buy it myself.
When we were living together, we both put 60% of our wages into a joint account, and all of our joint expenses came out of that – rent, utilities, tv/internet, food, gifts for friends, cab/bus fare on nights out, etc. And when we used his car to go on a trip, the petrol also came from the joint account. It worked for us!
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When I first read this story, I didn’t understand how the alimony payment ruling went through…maybe laws had changed in the 25 years since they signed, giving her a loophole? Makes me wonder what’s the point of signing the waiver if you’re going to break the deal in the future? Or what is the point of parting amicably, maybe everybody should just sue the shit out of each other from day one…
On the pay and payment equality- I guess as long as the couple has agreed on what they expect and what works out for them, it’s not my place to judge. (I DO judge… I’ll just keep it to myself, haha 🙂 )
One neat compromise my parents found was that my mother kept working a few years later so that my father could retire earlier- he was feeling ill effects and stress from his job, and she thought it was a good reward for all the years he had supported the rest of the family. For the record, she worked full time all her adult life too, but shorter hours and with a few years off for child raising.
I am currently being supported by my husband, as he can legally work in this country and I am waiting on a work permit. Waiting and waiting and waiting… I can’t imagine living off of him permanently, I feel so incredibly GUILTY and the boredom is killing me.
@Jen That is so cool!! Your mom let your dad retire earlier? How sweet. 🙂
I’m getting bored waiting for a contract too, but I’m paying my way for now…. lol I hear what you’re saying. If only you lived in Montreal!
Heh, ask my husband why I’m the dafault cook, the default cleaner, why he asks me to iron his shirts and won’t even think of doing it himself?
I think the world os changing a bit fast for us to adjust.
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I’m sorry, but I would NEVER think after I have been divorced that I need to take my ex’s money! Sounds like someone was bitter, if you ask me.
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I also believe in fairness, but if the guy earns more than the woman, and he’s willing to pay for everything, then I can’t complain about that. When I lived with the ex, he paid more for rent, but I paid my fair share based on my salary and I also covered all the utilities. Any money I saved went to our savings account, for both of us to use on trips away, fun stuff, things we both want.
I definitely would grow resentful though if a guy would take advantage of me if I earned more than him. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to take care of him, but if he doesn’t make an effort in saving/pitching in/getting a job, then i’d be really frustrated. Thankfully, I haven’t been in such a situation.
I am so frustrated with an ex best friend of mine who doesn’t feel she needs to get a job because she thinks her husband’s $100,000 salary (this is before tax) will cover her Hermes/Louboutin/Prada/LV habit, along with dining out for every single meal, every single day. She gets money from her parents every month, and she uses that to support her extravagant lifestyle, instead of saving up or helping her husband out. I couldn’t hang out with her anymore.
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I mostly agree that it’s totally ridiculous that the guy has to give her the money but there is one aspect where I can see it being reasonable. If she was a stay at home mom for the 17 years they were married, she wouldn’t have had any income to contribute to a retirement account like a 401k or an IRA and the early years of retirement savings are the most important in the long term so I can see how it would be reasonable to consider that she should get a portion of his retirement savings if that was the case but we don’t know all the details.
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There’s another reason and it’s quite simple actually – it’s called sex – at least initially. Men are willing to pay the price of gifts to either maintain having it or that there is a expectation that they will get it eventually. Women can hold that over men quite easily, men don’t have that option with women (usually). Couple that want with the long history & tradition of men being considered the ‘providers’ and there ya go…
Thanks for mentioning my story in your post!
Regarding the 25 years later story, it is pretty low that the wife tried to get money after so many years. It is even more messed up that the court granted her request. Truthfully, many guys I know don’t want to get married because they think divorce is stacked against them… and this story doesn’t help matters.
In a way I am lucky that Bae pretty much evenly splits costs with me and that might be partly because I’ve told her I’m more comfortable with sharing costs. Although I know her past boyfriends have basically paid for all of her things (clothes, rent, etc…) so I’m happy she is willing to share costs with me. Otherwise I probably wouldn’t be able to save any money =T
Though personally, I believe that if people get married then the costs should be proportionately split based on income levels so the person that makes more after-tax pays more but then would also be able to save more. But before marriage I think it should be more evenly split since everyone is still their own independent person.
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If it’s a younger couple and they are both kinda making their way in the world, then perhaps they can “have each other back” and work together by sharing expenses, etc. If their in my age range (forties). The man definitely needs to be in a position to support me financially, that should not be a problem – and if it is – that’s a problem!
Wow – 25 years later – i would love to know what upset the judge that morning. A couple should agree to whatever works for them and then stick to it (i.e. don’t go back on it later).
I know some couples where the husband works and takes care of the wife, others where the wife takes care of the husband financially – in these couples it seems to be working.
Where it doesn’t work is when the income earner that says they will take care of their partner, then resents it in the end and backs out. This causes trouble – so make sure you know what you are getting into when you make your agreement.
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I guess my attitude also depends on the fact that BF and I make about the same amount of money.
He makes more of it because he gets more contracts, but when we are both working full-time, we both earn about $16k/month.
Then we just save it, and use it to pay for our (very) low expenses 50/50.
Great points, and fine nuances between the words: equality and egalitarian.
@Investing Newbie
I am with you on this. I believe in egalitarianism not “equality.” The idea of equality is used to disproportionaley advance variour agendas that shouldn’t be at the cost of true equality.
An egalitarian approach to finance would mean each contributing proportionate to their income. For example, housing could be x amount and each person contributes 20% of their income. This 20% won’t be the same amount but it is proportionate to their income and thus egalitarian.
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I’m with Frugal Scholar/Suze Orman. I think the payments should be proportionate to income. It isn’t a “punishment” for making more, it’s just that, if you truly want to be equal, then you shouldn’t look at hard cash but rather percentages of pay.
I don’t live with the BF, but when we go out, we take turns paying. He is still in school and I am a full time employee. He doesn’t expect me to pay for everything and vice versa. We each put in our share and try to make it work somehow. And it has for 3.5 years!
Also, the divorce story is clearly a reflection of the failure of our legal system. The only reason the wife won was because the state didn’t want her has a dependant. This is when the law needs to get a brain and actually think about what is right. I feel bad for the husband in this case…
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Unbelievable. I read that story and was disgusted with the woman for going after her ex-husband like that. And with the judge for making such a decision.
Peanut makes more than me but he has a lot more in student loans than I do. We split day to day expenses right down the middle, everything from rent to saving for a vacation. If he lost his job, I’d support him, and vice versa. We also split chores right down the middle–he cooks, I clean. It’s a partnership, and I like it that way.
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Working women? I think should pay a fair proportion of salary. Meaning if you make 45% to 55% that’s it. But if the woman makes more it works the same way.
Now stay at home parents are a different ballgame.
WoW! So much for more egalitarian relationships. My dear husband of many years said that he was attracted to me in part because I had an “I can take care of myself” attitude. This was when I was living on $300.00/month, by the way. He said he felt the pressure of expectations from a lot of women.
Lucky for me. He’s a good guy and does the dishes, makes repairs, paints, the list foes on. And he probably changed more diapers than i did.
Suze Orman says you should split by percentage of income: if one makes 100,000 and the other 50,000, the first pays 2/3 of things, the second 1/3.
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