Translation: Never put your bust on your plate.
Found a marvelous blog called Shelley’s House from a new commenter (Hi Shelley!) that led me to this link on her blog post about Parisian politeness written by BBC UK.
(See everyone? Commenting works!! 🙂
How else am I going to find you and your fab blogs?
I support de-lurking.)
The gist of French Politeness:
The title, “A history of politeness in France”, might strike the uncharitable as being a very short book indeed.
………..
I had arrived punctually at the chic Parisian flat on the Left Bank, on the dot of eight o’clock in the evening, as per the invitation, bearing flowers for my hostess.
I wondered why she seemed slightly put out. I realised, when the other guests – politicians, a philosopher, a banker or two and their wives – finally arrived an hour later.
………..
Constance patiently explained that a lady never, ever grabs the bottle of wine to pour her own drink.
She must wait for her host or another man to pour it for her. And more than one aperitif before dinner is considered the sure sign of an alcoholic, or an Englishwoman.
We are [England], after all, a nation renowned in France for ‘le binge-drinking’.
………..
“Wishing someone bon appetit is seen as very vulgar in polite circles,” Constance explained, as I realised to my horror that I must have wished almost every French person I have ever met at a meal “bon appetit”.
………..
A psychiatrist has coined a term for its effect on Japanese visitors to the city: “Paris Syndrome“.
Every year, several Japanese tourists have to be repatriated from Paris after falling prey to severe culture shock at the hands of the less than polite Parisians.
Waiters who fail to understand their order, taxi drivers who take them to the wrong place and then charge double.
All this is too much for some to take, as their dream of the city of light crumbles into a nightmare of darkness, creating a sense of rejection and paranoia.
………..
FB Note: Ironically, this is sort of how I felt when I went to Japan as a kid for 3 weeks.
It was crazy there!
I had never felt so out of place, or like an alien in a totally foreign, diametrically opposing land.
They were also effusively polite to the point of embarrassment for me. I was thrown off!
But I didn’t feel any sense of rejection or paranoia.
Although if you’ve watched Lost in Translation with Bill Murray, I think some people experience the exact same thing in Japan.
………..
Yet I know exactly how they feel after my encounter at a dress shop last week. I picked up a skirt to try on, and as I took it to the changing room, the shop assistant shouted out across the crowded room: “I wouldn’t bother if I were you – it’ll never fit!”
The phrase, “the customer is king”, has clearly lost something in translation.
………..
“Never down your drink in one”, and “ne jamais ecraser le buste vers l’assiette” or “don’t put your bust in your plate” and “never make noises of satisfaction at the dinner table”.
And never, ever say bon appetit.
So now I know. And in spite of that, I’d like everyone across Britain to join me now in wishing all in France a very bon appetit indeed this Christmas.
FB’s Take
I was snorting throughout the entire article.
Some things the French do in France, are exactly the same as in Quebec (not all, mind you).
I went through a similar culture shock (although not quite as extreme), moving here to Montreal, what I truly consider to be the most bilingual city in all of Canada.
Everyone here really speaks enough French or English, and they speak one of the languages perfectly.
Montreal Culture Shocks:
Note: Quebeckers, please don’t get up in arms.
These were only my initial reactions to Montreal, and I know not all of you are like this.
Merci.
Doing the cheek kissing thing.
Men, Women.
I even get confused whether it’s two kisses or four.
Sometimes I do the 2 cheek kiss, and then I pull back, only to see the person go back in for a third or fourth.
Awk-ward moment…!
So how many is it?
They say it depends on how well you know the person and where in France (or anywhere in Europe, because they do the cheek thing in Portugal too).
Translation: I have a sneaking suspicion that they don’t know either.
But if they’re of the opposite sex, and straight they go straight for the 4 kisses.
Why?
It’s the maximum they can get away with in front of your boyfriend without him punching their lights out.
Customer Service is shaky sometimes
Some stores are really amazing. I’d say a lot of stores, mostly chains like Jacob or Banana Republic, greet you when you walk in, follow you around to tell you about specials and then leave you alone.
But the truly Frr-ench stores like Boutique Onze on Ste-Catherine, will basically ignore you the entire time you are there.
You go to grab something off the shelf, and you feel their eyes, piercing into your back, mentally willing you to GTFO (Get the F*ck out).
The first time I EVER encountered this, I was in a state of culture shock.
“WHY DON’T THEY WANT MY MONEY!?!?“, I wailed.
They also sometimes do this charming catch-22 with the language.
If you speak English, some give off the impression they’re patronizing you by speaking it, because you should CLEARLY be speaking French here.
If you speak French, they’ll frown suspiciously at your non-Quebecois accent and then switch to English with a huff and a sigh, like they’re doing you a favour.
(Even BF has encountered this, and French is his mother tongue!!!)
Contrary to the article, they REALLY love beer and drinking here
It isn’t just for the English.
(Perhaps, the English influence is at play? *wink*)
They also enjoy their wine, and you can pick up alcohol anywhere, not like Ontario where you have to visit the LCBO.
People are EVERYWHERE on the patios in summer drinking beer, moreso than I’ve ever seen in Ontario or the States.
It is not considered socially wrong for a woman to drink more than one glass of wine.
Not here, at least.
They have summer hours of work
I was like: “hey.. WHAT?”, when I first heard about it.
This does NOT exist in Ontario, as far as I’ve ever known.
Legitimate, Company-Mandated Summer Hours.
When it’s summer, Fridays are half days, if you work later Monday-Thursday.
This is so you can go out and enjoy the weather (namely the beer, sun and scantily-clothed girls) on Fridays at 1 p.m. rather than being stuck at work, throwing evil stares at your boss, willing him to grow horns.
They all smoke
I feel like 99% of the people living here are hardcore smokers.
When you wander around downtown at around 10 a.m., you will see groups, nay, HORDES of people in little smoking packs, shivering, sipping their hot coffees and puffing as fast as they can.
Everywhere you turn, someone is lighting up.
Or blowing smoke in your face.
They all bike
Kind of an oxymoron with that smoking, no? 😛
Vancouver is comparable to Montreal in terms of hardcore bike lovers.
There are a lot of bike lanes here, and a lot of beautiful trails (BF and I are bikers too, but only on safe trails and off the road). So I can see why.
But I should mention that Vancouver has a fairly mild winter from what I understand, and Montreal has one of the nastiest I have ever encountered.
High winds, awful chunks of ice everywhere, snow up to your ears and the bitterness of having to live near water.
But you will inevitably, always see SOMEONE biking, even in the dead of winter.
I always peer out the car window and say: LOOK! LOOK! Another crazy sonofabitch is biking in 3 feet of snow!!!
They’re all divorced
At least, that’s what it seems.
Then again, I am in IT, so maybe there’s a higher rate of divorcees in such a lonely sausage-infested industry? 😛
But it was really surprising that out of 100 people in a department, only 10 were married, 10 were single and 80 were divorced.
No one likes to obey the pedestrian signals
Gives me a heart attack each time.
The worst is near La Baie on Ste-Catherine.
They will seriously walk whether the light is green or red, and flip the bird if they drive by, and try to honk to tell them “get out of the way you stupid idiot!“
Having grown up in Toronto where people are more careful and pretty much respect pedestrian signals most of the time, this was something new for me.I think it’s due to the fact that in Toronto the cars aren’t really watching for errant pedestrians like they are in Montreal, so they drive at 70 km/h.
And common belief is that if you are stupid enough to cross the street while they’re zooming along as is their right of way, you will end up getting hurt.
So I am always paralyzed on the side walk until the light changes.
No matter what.
I’m sure that it’s a surefire sign that I am NOT a native, but I don’t care.
It’s gotten so bad, I heard the police were started to hand out jaywalking tickets!!!
They are some crazy mofo’ing Formula 1 attitudes here
The first time I got into my car to drive to work, I realized that I would have to get up an hour earlier just to avoid having ANY cars on the road.
Why?
Because they don’t like to brake or stop here!!!
People say Toronto is awful for driving, and the Highway 401 is the worst place you can be…
But if you live in Canada and haven’t cut your teeth on Montreal traffic, you have NOT understood what it’s like to drive like a crazy person.
It’s not just me!
My sister came to visit me in Montreal, and she couldn’t believe how crazy it was on the roads.
No one respects the single lane.
Some cars try to squeeze by you in an extra big SINGLE lane because they think they can make it, which ends up causing fear and accidents.
The bridges are awful, with the ramps only lasting for a single car length or so (that is NOT enough time to merge safely).
Etc, etc.
Rapid-fire French all the time
They’re quite kind here.
They’ll stop and check to see if I understand once in a while, but most of the time, it’s blibbedy-blipblipblip in French.
The first time I ever had a French dinner, it was crazy.
I couldn’t understand a word that was being said, and one other fellow Anglophone took pity on me, and translated, which forced everyone to speak English for a short period of time.
I totally understood though.
If we were anywhere else with English-speakers, I’d be speaking baabbedy-bapabap in English instead of making an effort for one poor Frenchie.
Language majority rules in this case! So you’d best learn both languages or be left out. 🙂
Anglophone Tourists (English-speaking Tourists) think people here can’t speak or understand English
Duh.
I was walking behind a group of Ontarians, and I was practicing my French with BF on the streets.
I just innocently said something in French, and the guy whipped around, gave me a quick appraising stare, and said loudly, not knowing I was eavesdropping (tee hee!):
“Man I love it when people here only know how to speak French.
And when they speak English, it’s so accented.. and strange!
It’s like we live in the same country, but we have to feel like foreigners in it when we visit our own cities.
And it’s totally weird for me to hear it… blabbedy bla bla”
I couldn’t help laughing because I was just practicing badly spoken French, and the one time I do it in public, I get slammed by an Anglophone! 🙂
I shot BF a look, but he of course, was clueless as to WTF just happened.
They have a deep-seated dislike for French people from France.
Not Belgium.
Not Switzerland.
FRANCE.
I don’t get this at all from them, because I am clearly NOT French, but BF does.
He gets it at dinner parties, where they hear he’s from France, and they’ll launch into a tirade about how they should’ve come to save Quebec from the English during the war.
(Ouch, yo!)
And especially in interviews.
He’ll get questions like: “Oh but you speak French?”
He replies affirmatively, and speaks a bit of French to demonstrate.
And then the next statement is…”But.. you speak French.. from FRANCE“, with a hint of disgust in their voice.
Meow!!!!
Those were pretty much my main impressions of Montreal when I first arrived.
Now that I’m “over” the culture shock, I don’t expect to find a salesperson, be served correctly/on time (and when I do, I am SO grateful, it’s sickening)…
I always call shops to check their hours, because nothing really “starts” until 11 a.m., and ends around 5 p.m. or earlier if they feel like it, even on Saturdays.
Very flexible hours in general.
And I always expect the government to eff up something on the tax returns, because they need to keep their jobs and make me travel downtown to sort it out.
I’ve also developed a smoking radar, and have learned how to whip my head from side to side to avoid the fumes of smoke drifting to assault my senses.
Looking BOTH WAYS before you cross any street, because bicyclists will run your ass down no matter where you are, if the cars haven’t gotten to you yet.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
I agree with you one thousand percent! And so many of the commonalities between Montreal and Paris are spot on (the smoking, the biking, crazy driving). I actually found people in Paris less rude than in Montreal. And people in both cities have staring problems. I love visiting both places but could live in neither 🙂
The crazy driving makes me nervous.
I haven't encountered crazy staring yet.
I think they'd rather I not stare back 🙂
I've only been to Quebec once on a ski trip my freshman year of college, but I was definitely able to experience some of the things you mentioned. For one, it is so safe there – walking around at 2am was not a big deal at all! I also ended up at this bar where I met a Quebec student, and our entire conversation was based around how much he hated French people – how they act, how they speak, how they think they're sooo much better than the Quebecois.
I will say, the skiing is amazing, I can't wait to go back, no matter how bad the traffic/ driving is!
Oh it is DEFINITELY safe in Quebec. Just don't go into the shady areas, but in general most of Canada is pretty safe.
You know what, I think the rivalry between the Quebecois and the French will never end 🙂 Just like how the French say the rivalry between them and the Italians will never end, or between them and the English…
Hmm.. common denominator? THE FRENCH! Hahaha!
This post had me cracking up!!
Hmm…I am not conviced about the horrible traffic/driving from the description and that maybe because I drive with beyond crazy drivers in DC. At least the roads don't change directions two times a day. Many people are slow to do the switch when they are supposed to and everyday you will without fail on every single day will have two cars heading towards each other from both direction on one lane until one of them suddenly realizes they need to move over.
Okay, that one is pretty bad, but I would also like to point out the roads here are poster children for what NOT to do with the city's money.
The mayor basically pocketed big chunks of cash from the money directed to repairing roads, and he picked friends' companies which means they did squat and got millions.
What a great post, I agree with almost everything you say. The best is when I attempted to speak french in a bar, and the man just looked at me like I was an idiot and repeated everything I said in english to me.. OKAAAY. I love crazy driving though, they are NUTS in montreal, love it!
*laugh* … But you TRIED right? They like it but then they don't like it…
One of my ex boyfriends is French from Paris and him and his other French buddies would always make fun of our Quebecois friend for using such outdated, medieval French. We also nicknamed him la mouette because he looked like one. Good memories.
That article was a good read!
Ooo that's awful HAHAHA 🙂 .. La Mouette…
Yep. It's old style French, from waaaay back. But they have started making up their own French, or Franglais words (French + English).. or just words in general that make no sense unless you grew up learning it.
Kind of like Swiss-German, perhaps.
Hi hi!
I really liked this post. I had a culture shock when I got to Montreal too. I came from France and frankly, I didn't understand anything the Quebecois said. Ok, maybe 50% of what they said. But then I got used to it.
The kissing thing… I didn't notice it. The French from France do it a lot, but I've never seen it done here. And thank goodness b/c I hate it.
The smoking… OMG! You're so right! It's like they all share an ancient French gene, b/c they smoke like chimneys in France too.
I still don't like the way Quebecois French sounds like, it's like they're butchering the French language (as Phoebe from Friends said). But that's just me!
Do you still live here? 🙂
It is difficult for me, learning French to understand what they're saying. It's sort of like BF having a hard time understanding what an Australian says in English to him.
It's very difficult.
And the kissing thing has been really prevalent for me here!!!!!!! But perhaps it's because I'm a girl and they want to take advantage? :
I always try to shake hands but most people run right in for the kiss.
OMG! Everything you said is true… When I was in Montreal, I noticed that everyone WAS smoking. And there were bikes everyone. And people were crossing lights even when it wasn't time – I kept staring at them cause I saw the light and I knew it meant, "DO NOT WALK" but everyone was crossing like it was nothing!
On a side note… I really want summer work hours in Ontario. 🙁
I wish all of Ontario had summer work hours. Apparently in York they have it.. (see above comments)
Smoking, bikes, jaywalking.. it's a wild, wild town.
Customer service: Yes. I'd say nine out of ten times, store employees in Montreal are ridiculously nice and helpful. But every once in a while when I've gone into a shop there I've encountered a really surly salesperson. One even made a little "ba-ba-ba!" noise and took a piece of clothing from my hands that I was about to put on the rack myself .. like, I was an inch away from the rack .. and she took it and put it on the rack herself. It wasn't a helpful thing, it was an "I think you're incompetent and are somehow tainting the clothes just by touching them" thing. I could FEEL it. 😛
Drinking: I love Quebec beer! Lots of variety and it's just a bit stronger than other Canadian beers. I also find people stay out drinking a lot later in Montreal. Torontonians seem uptight in comparison afterwards.
Summer hours: My last job had summer hours because my department worked for the Sales department who worked for their clients who all had summer hours. It would've been great if it were actually do-able. Unfortunately it was a high stress job and all the sh*t really hit the fan right on Friday afternoon. So it was almost a joke .. I think I left early maybe twice but I had to do more than the equivalent amount of overtime to make it happen. I used to watch the Sales department leave at 1 pm and mentally stab them as I stayed at work and tried to make sure their clients' needs were met. 😛 Erm, but anyway yeah, summer hours are not an altogether uncommon thing here, is my point.
Pedestrian signals: Once I was visiting Quebec City with my mom, and much to my annoyance (I was an impatient teenager) she insisted we wait to cross the street since the light was red, even though there were no cars coming. Several crowds of people walked up ahead of us, disregarding the light, and I got even more antsy. Then a guy walking ahead turned back, looked at us, and said in his Quebecois accent "Euh .. you know in Quebec City it's OK, you can walk." I was so embarrassed. They knew we were tourists just because we were standing there obeying the lights!
THAT IS SO ME ALL THE TIME! Waiting at the lights, paralyzed…..
But I still obey the lights anyway. I feel uncomfortable.
Best line ever:
"I think you're incompetent and are somehow tainting the clothes just by touching them"
I've lived in Toronto for most of my life and I was interested in moving to Montreal. I love visiting Montreal but I can imagine that living there might be a wake-up call. I lived in Paris for part of 2006 and I loved it! The shop keepers were generally polite. My ex bf from France said that it was normal to greet the sales person (he was wondering why we don't do it all the time here in Toronto) and they appreciated it when a person tries to speak french. I had to sit through multiple dinners where the conversation was in french all the time. It was quite an experience and I was lost in translation especially when it came to the political discussions! I also noticed that the french had a habit of staring (looking intently(?)) and my ex had to break this habit when he moved to Toronto. Also, people from France made fun of the Quebec accent (not so much Montreal). They say that they speak like farmers and country-folk. I of course, could not tell the difference!
It's really a slight wake up call. I wasn't prepared for it, but BF helped me through it 🙂 He's more English than French in attitude, I suppose.
The Quebec accent in general is derided in France, but they can't help it. It's what they learned because it's old French from when they first immigrated to Canada.
Then modern French evolved in France and they stayed the same here, evolving in their own words.
It's like England English… versus American or Canadian English. We have a totally different, 'out west' kind of accent to them. And they're very posh to us 🙂
The driving really scares me.
I swear… being in a taxi makes me nauseous.
Okay, I have to say something about the French. I've had bad experiences in Quebec as a young kid (I used to live in Ontario [can't wait til I move back one day!] and when I was 11 or 12, I went on a 10 day trip to Quebec City. I spent most of the time by myself (ditched my 'buddies') and it was very safe but I found the Quebecois to be rude, and very snotty when I spoke English. (My Mom's family is from Montreal btw). But I've been to Paris 3 or 4 summers in a row and I LOVE it. Nobody has EVER been rude to me (maybe 1 shop assistant was indifferent at the Galleries Lafayettes). I've even been given a HUGE load of expensive skincare samples from one lady because I was "trés gentile" and waited patiently for her to finish serving another customer (I never even bought anything, just wanted to check out the prices!). As long as you make an effort in France to speak French and say "bonjour" and "au revoir" as you enter and leave shops, and "merci" you will have a good experience–just remember things happen at a different pace than here in hectic North America. And the French just LOVE to help people if they have a problem; they're really keen problem-solvers for some reason, it's quite funny!
Can't wait for my next trip to Paris!
D-
I find that if you go to Quebec City or really up north where they are, they're .. for lack of a better phrasing, "threatened" by English speaking people because they feel like French is dying there :\\
I do find them a tad rude in very French areas, but on the whole it's not EVERYONE who acts like that.
I have yet to visit Paris, so I'll come back with observations when I do.
I'll be going to England after as well.. a nice contrast I Think.
“I wouldn’t bother if I were you – it’ll never fit!” –> that is golden!!
i DESPISE social kissing. I don't think I'll ever get used to it.
Summer hours sound like a great idea, though!
That was pretty direct and straightforward wasn't it?
She sure didn't mince words.
And as for cheek kissing, I am just confused and uncomfortable. I'm a handshake kind of girl or a hugger.
I am HUGE on hugging.
Do you know about their Maternity Leave? They literally have like an entire year off for having a baby. the Dad’s have lots of time off too!
Another cool thing about Montrealians (is that the correct term?) is that the weather really does not bother them! It’s kinda cool that they don’t moan and groan about it. My aunt has lived there for 30 years and when the weather hits negatives, she barely blinks and adds another layer 😉
.-= Duddes02´s last blog ..NYU =-.
I think the whole country gets a year off on mat leave–either one parent or can be split between both parents. At least, my friend here in BC got a year off for both of her sons.
Yes, it's a whole year. 🙂 Paternity leave is also common here in Canada.
Montrealers are usually what you call 'em… 🙂 But either one works!
For me, I can't stand the weather when it starts, but then I get used to it and go "meh"…
Maternity leave is the same across the country because of EI being a federal run program… it's the childcare that is the absolute best in the country- bar none in comparison to others. When the time comes for you to add to your brew FB you'll enjoy the perk while we pay about $750 a month per child.
The perk of what? childcare here? I doubt it.
I am not staying here in Quebec or in Canada for that matter.
I’d rather pay $750/month per child than live here among this kind of culture.
It’s highly stressful in ways I can’t describe, unless you have physically lived here and dealt with it.
I should also mention that if you think $750/month per child is too expensive, perhaps you should re-evaluate how much you earn.
If you earn less than paying $750/month per child, then stay at home and take care of them. If not, then……………………………………………
As a Quebec born, Ontario raised person, I found this hilarious. So true. As for the driving, try crossing Montreal AND Toronto in the same day as I do once a year to visit my firends, pure hell LOL.
I'm going to send my son (in France this year) the link.
Many years ago, we were in Montreal, where Mr. FS spoke his Parisian-accented French. People always replied en anglais. But the effort seemed appreciated.
Yes that's true. Most people like it when you make an effort.
But good to hear it isn't just BF 🙂 I think it's that they don't recognize the accent and assume you're English..
Shelley here. It's very sweet of you to link to my blog. I spent a week once in Montreal and had a great time. We stayed at a B&B and had a blast trying to figure out what to order, as the menu was all in French and the waitress pretended she didn't speak English. I was fine with that — it made it seem all the more foreign for us! Towards the end of our stay I went clothes shopping. There was no one else in the shop and the salesgirl kept putting together outfits for me — complete with belts and necklaces. I spent about $200, which in 1980 was the most I'd ever spent at one time in my life. I practically wore those clothes to rags, I loved them so. There are a lot of places in the world that many of us love to visit, but won't want to live. Perhaps Montreal is one of those?
I'll be back…
Well you had a good set of posts! I added you to my reader.
If they pretend not to speak English, it's usually because they don't want to or are too shy. Just as how shy I initially was with French.
Gesturing seems to work 🙂
I think Montreal is definitely a GREAT place to visit as a tourist in the summer or to shop.
But to live? I am finding cracks in the armor.
The only place I hate more than Montreal is the US. 🙂 Maybe it's just because of my work experience, but Montreal is always a pain in the ass to deal with. And what you say seems generally true from my experience. It makes me look forward to my visit next week… 😛
You're coming here? No way!!!! 🙂 Well good luck…
Thanks! I'll need it. 😛
I gotta say, as a non French-speaking, non French-looking person, I LOVED Paris!! My wife and I stayed in Pont du Noi (sp?!) with a relative there for 10 days.
We never once encountered rudeness, and we went everywhere. Perhaps it's b/c the wife tried speaking French, and I just nodded and smiled a lot 🙂
Love France.
I have a feeling your wife helped soothe their senses by speaking French.
Luckily, I am prepared for that 🙂
They're so kind when you stumble over words in French.. giving you a nice, pitying look of "how cute"
Love it. The pity.. bask in the pity!!
Summer hours exist! I'd never heard of them until living in Toronto – York has them (and it irritated me that as a student I didn't get the hours, but the full-timers did).
And a lot of our clients have summer hours (but not all, so we can't have summer hours). They work an extra 45 min to an hour Monday-Thursday, and get to leave for 1 PM.
Wow! I hope it spreads all over Canada. It's a GREAT initiative.