It’s a guest post actually by Megan… posted by LAL (Living Almost Large)
My answer:
Megan makes a good a point about her values making her feel the way she does (stay at home, etc). I can’t fault that at all, because we all grow up with certain values and we can’t change that mentality. That, I totally agree with.
With that being said, and with my own values of how I was raised (along with my upbringing), I 100%, completely felt repulsed by the idea (!) of staying at home, staying pretty (with the fear of being upgraded), and basically not contributing other than trying to make sure my husband stays extremely happy and well-fed.
Being unable to work, or on maternity leave to raise your offspring are totally different things. I cannot imagine being disabled, and I will definitely be on mat leave for all of my kids, of at least a year.
Moving on.
As per what I have observed over the years, and these things pop to mind:
A) If I were a man, I would not want that.
I’d want an interesting wife, who has a life and a job of her own and can hold her own in interesting conversations because she has other things to talk about other than the home and the kids.
I don’t want a wife who is completely devoted to me and my life, to the point where she doesn’t have one of her own. (I am thinking of Joy Luck Club where one wife lost her identity completely in trying to be the perfect trophy wife to her husband – he dumped her until she realized she lost herself and who she was when they first met, and then they came back together).
And really, let’s face it – if she’s at home and hanging out with other women who have the same mindset, it all becomes a beige blur.
I’d rather her go to work, meet interesting, different people of all levels and be challenged by them and their points of view, and tell me about her challenges at work and how she overcame them, or what she heard from others at work.
Then again, some guys are willing to pay for that. *shrug* I wouldn’t, as a man.
B) I’d be afraid of being upgraded.
You can only stay pretty for so long, and unless I’m filthy rich (which I am not) and my money was partly why he married me so that I could finance his ambitions (Cindy McCain comes to mind), then when I get older, I’d have the constant fear of being shuffled out for a perky secretary.
There’s an infamous woman in Britain who was just recently ousted (I can’t recall her name), and she went publicly on YouTube to slam her husband for leaving her, lamenting about how she had no more money, etc.
I don’t want that!
C) I expect the same work ethic from my spouse
Sure, I’d contribute with the kids, but I’d expect my husband to do the same. He’s got to wash, feed, clothe and take care of the kids as much as I do, and I don’t want to be in that position just because I’m the mother.
It takes two to tango in the baby making sack.
We can’t have two career-driven spouses in a household (I’ve seen that, and it just is NOT pretty because they’re always competing to see who is the best), but who says I or my future husband has to make it to the top to be the Top Dog over the other?
D) Real Life isn’t about having it easy
Where would I be if I didn’t have such a challenge to face, early on? The way my parents raised me? Or the way that I’ve dealt with awful situations in my life?
While I’m experiencing it, I’m envying others with the greenest eyes possible, but in hindsight, having it easy would be boring.
I’m competitive without a doubt, but there are other things in life, and I feel like we’re all so focused on work and getting ahead that we’re losing a real quality of life – the ability to sit there, and do nothing, and live.
I mean, what’s the point of all this money, if we can’t buy our own free time, sit there and wake up knowing that we have absolutely no obligations for a day?
My idea of living does not consist of spas, going out to eat, making sure I’m dressed in diamonds etc.
It’s fine, but not fun if you do it all the time as a hobby just as an insurance so that your spouse won’t leave your blingin’, Pilates-toned butt.
The meaning of life is to live, not to gather stuff like a packrat, or show off.
Anyway, I’m getting off tangent here with my example above, but the other thing that struck me was the idea of not having my own money (made by my own sweat and hard work to contribute to a family). That thought alone, makes me paranoid, feeling inadequate and a bit sick.
E) I just don’t think it’s my money unless I earn it. Bottom line.
If my husband gives me $500/month, it’s not my money. It’s his money, and a gift to me, but I’d still feel like it’s his. Even if you make the case that I’m saving money because the kids aren’t in daycare, blab bla bla.. I would still, deep down, feel like it is his money.
It’s the way I was raised.
F) What’s the point of a degree, then?
Particularly in the IT industry for me, to be out of work for so long past 2 years MAXIMUM at one shot, is not an option for me.
Anything past 2 years, and I’m irrelevant. I am not up to date any more, and I could get back into the groove, but I’d have to get re-certified, take classes, and start from mid-rung to work up to what I had before.
I went to business school for a reason, I sure as hell paid for it, and I’m going to use that degree, even if it’s only part-time.
If not, what’s the point of going to school?
To expand your knowledge so you can be educated enough to pass it on to your kids?
You can do that by reading.
Honestly, I don’t put much stock in getting a degree and then not using it.
What’s the point? Don’t get the degree, don’t waste the money and read books and apply those principles instead and focus on being pretty if that’s what your goal is.
To meet others? You can do that by going out with your own friends who go to college.
What’s the point?
G) You can be as perfect as you want, but there’ll be resentment
I watch a lot of Desperate Housewives, most of whom like Bree van der Kamp was a stay at home trophy wife for the longest time before she wrote her own cookbook.
She was the perfect trophy wife. Immaculate home, she is breathtaking and her meals are divine.
But I found her boring (as a wife) and I identified more with Lynette in the beginning of the series.
Just recently, I saw an episode where they did a flashback of how she came to start thinking about writing a cookbook, and the (now deceased) Mr. van der Kamp brought up a snarky point about resenting that she kept pestering him for a new oven but didn’t actually work for any money, so he was on the hook to pay for it with his income.
That resentment, no matter how slight, is felt by EVERYONE (man or woman) about their spouse who does not bring home some of the bacon, and then expecting their proverbial new stove.
I don’t care who you are. You will, at some point, feel stressed out, and resentful that you’re the one waking up at 6 a.m. to trudge to work and commute in heavy traffic only to be yelled at for 9 hours, while your spouse stays at home.
You come home, and even if the house is immaculate, the kids are clean, well-behaved, and there’s a hot dinner on the table waiting for you, you will inevitably think: Well.. DUH! She’s at home all day. What else is she going to do?
I am not condoning that way of thinking, that what a woman (or man) does at home should not be appreciated (btw, *heart to BF for cooking all the time*), but if put in that position, you are going to wonder.
H) Relying on one income is dangerous
Couldn’t do it. Plain and simple.
If I lost my job, my spouse should be there to help pick up the slack, and vice versa. I don’t want to have that kind of stress, and really…. the husband will always be stressed to some degree thinking about that situation with a wife who doesn’t work:
“What if I lost my job? My kids, my wife… they couldn’t make ends meet, we have some money saved, but what if I don’t get another job in time? What if there’s an accident?“
Then on top of all of that, you hear about how she went rock climbing with the girls after a refreshing lunch at Pastis, then went for a facial afterwards and finished off with some tanning pool time and shopping… and you think: “It was all on MY dollar.”
Even if it was what he wanted – the beautifully toned, manicured, pleasant wife…
I am not sure it would give me much pleasure to know that my wife was completely cared for to her utter whim, being the one who’s actually busting hump in the workplace to pay for all of that.
So, fabulous kudos to Megan for working on pulling it off, but I am definitely on the other side of that spectrum.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
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FB, what a great post! I like your thoughts about the trophy wife debate (emphasis on trophy wife and not stay at home mom — completely different!), however, I disagree that a woman should not earn a degree if she is not planning to use it. You never know what life can throw at you, so if a woman earns a degree in something she is interested in, she will be able to work in a pleasing career if necessary. If her husband leaves, if her husband loses his job, or if she decides she wants to pursue a career, her degree will be an asset to her job search. Also, earning a degree will help her grow intellectually and interpersonally, so I agree with others that everyone should attend college if they desire.
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That\’s a good point. Like a backup plan. I just find it kind of expensive to spend $100k on business school degrees and then to not bother using it. 🙁
I follow all your arguments and agree. My parents – Mom in particularly – raised me to think it was important to have a man, but that I would go to university and I would support myself. My mom was a major contributor to the household, colouring photographs from home. Her mother had her own beauty shop and raised six children, being twice divorced. She married well, but always struggled to get child support.
I read somwhere that women who marry for money earn every penny, and from what I've observed that is true. I was the primary breadwinner in this household for the first 12 years. Now I'm retired and he is. I still own the house, he's paying to fix it up a little – his idea. I love having a more or less equal partnership. Having experienced that I'd never settle for less.
Wow, Love, Money, Fitness and more, are you talking about me? I am sorry that I’m getting a phd and hoping not to use it at all. Ouch.
Oh well to each his own. I think I made a mistake. Doesn’t mean that I can’t do something I want to do. Okay yes, maybe I should do what I went to school for. But most people I know aren’t doing what hey went to school for!
AMEN. After reading through the little girls blog it us easy to see she is QUITE delusional- no sex, it seems the bf may be gay, he refuses to give her anything of value…this golddigger is too stupid to realize she is digging for coal.
I agree with most everything you’ve said FB, except the beginning. I whole-heartedly disagree with the idea that we can’t change the mentalities instilled in us from your background and familial values. Yes, to an extent, our families and cultures will shape the way we think; however, it is ultimately our decision in how we choose to live our lives.
Case in point. I am reading this book for work called “The Magic of Thinking Big.” In one of the chapters the author talks about a news reporter that was covering the story of a serial killer/rapist in the mid-northwest area. This man had two son’s, whom he saw maybe once or twice over the years he spent in jail. One grew up to be on the fast track of joining his father in prison. He’d already been arrested for grand theft and was facing charges of murder. The other son grew up to be a prominent member of the community, a pastor at the local church, and donated his time and energy to helping orphaned children find good homes. Intrigued by the differences, the reporter interview both sons and the big question of the interview was why they turned out the way they did. To the reporter’s surprise, the brother’s answered the exact same way, “Well look at my father, how could I not turn out this way.” The difference between the brothers was that one used their father’s behavior as an excuse for his own, while the other used it as the example of how he didn’t want to be. He overcame the values taught in his family and chose a different path. So my point is this, familial values are not absolute.
This same argument is why I disagreed with Megan from the get-go of her explanation. She was “raised” to believe that she would never be a career woman. Ok, sure. But it was her choice to remain that way. She could have gone against the cuff there and said that she was going to make a career for herself before she settled down to depend on a man. But she chose to go the TW route. That’s her choice, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that it was a result of her upbringing.
Kristy
www,masteryourcard.com/blog
@ Liz:
I do understand where you are coming from on your degree POV. But, ultimately, I have to agree with FB:
Getting a degree with no intention of using it is a waste of time and money (that should probably be saved for when future hubby upgrades). If she truly intends on staying home before children and after they go off to school, she should have plenty of time to read and write her way into some journalism "experience" without wasting a boatload on a degree.
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And resentment, it will be there, maybe even more with that degree! I know a man who's wife is just about done with a PHD and has absolutely NO INTENTION of doing anything with it!!! She plans to just stay home, or possibly work on a different degree. (I can't even comment on this further because it is so far from my comprehension)
This man is now quite fed up with this (it's been over 10 years and he's paid for all of it) and complains constantly.
Being a "trophy wife" just seems like a miserable, insecure (financially & mentally), and lonely existence.
I have to agree with Meg.
When Mr. comes home with a paycheck, it is OUR money. Like any good marriage, ours is a 50/50 partnership and we work together to achieve our goals. He can earn that money because I do all the housekeeping and he rarely has to lift a finger when he comes home.
Also, a college education is not just about getting a piece of paper to get a job. There’s a HELL of a lot more experience and general education going on and even though I plan to be a permanent housewife, I’m 100% happy to have earned a B.A. You simply CAN’T get that kind of education from reading a bunch of books.
-Frugal Urbanite
i forgot to add, i think if my husband a good enough income i wouldnt mind working part time, that way you kinda have the best of both worlds.
I don’t know….I was bothered by this:
If not, what’s the point of going to school?
To expand your knowledge so you can be educated enough to pass it on to your kids?
You can do that by reading.
Honestly, I don’t put much stock in getting a degree and then not using it.
What’s the point? Don’t get the degree, don’t waste the money and read books and apply those principles instead and focus on being pretty if that’s what your goal is.
To meet others? You can do that by going out with your own friends who go to college.
What’s the point?
That just….bothers me. Even if I never go to work (and believe me, I have working and a career in my blood, I’m just hypothetically saying this), I would never regret getting my college degree. It almost sounds elitst to tell others, “if you won’t use it, then don’t get it. I deserve it because I’ll use it, and since you’ll have a different lifestyle, don’t bother getting it.”
You learn so much more in college than if you just read. My BF hasn’t gone to college, and although he is very smart and self-studies, he sometimes acknowledges that there’s something different about the college experience. I don’t know if it’s discipline, or active learning, or getting feedback on your language, writing, and skills, but if anyone can afford it and work hard, it’s their choice to use it or not.
Amen! I enjoy what I do and could never give it up, not for long anyway. BF would like me to stay home if we could afford it, but that’s not likely, thank god! OTOH, most of my friends are real traditional and think it’s virtually a crime to NOT stay home and raise your kids. (One of them is in med school and wants to have her kids in her twenties…not sure how that’s going to work)
Agreed on pretty much all accounts. I want to have my own money, and learn and grow at an interesting job.
And actually, my boyfriend has joked that he’d want to be the stay at home dad. That bothers me a little…I love my job, so I’d be happy working there. But I think I’d resent him, and think of him as lazy, even if he was raising kids (okay, looking way into the possible future, as we’re only dating, not married!)
Well, that might also have to do with my current opinion of him when he stays home from work…
Anyway, I wouldn’t mind cutting my hours if my husband would do the same so that we could raise our kids, but completely being out of the workforce would drive me crazy. I honestly am wondering what I’m going to do in the distant future when I retire…won’t I be bored silly?
i totally agree with you FB. I mean, some women feel its like, their calling to be a mom and they just wanna stay home with the kids, but i dont think i could do that!
I too would feel that it wasnt my money, if my spouse was the one earning it. I would feel like i always have to run it by him if i wanna buy something somewhat expensive for myself.
I also get bored VERY easily, another reason why i could never be a stay at home mom.
if youre a stay at home mom and run your own business from home, thats different. That would be more ideal, if your into owning a business and such.
Here’s my post in response to Megan’s aspirations and on what a trophy wife actually is:
http://www.shetakesontheworld.com/2009/02/trophy-wife-or-housewife.html
I agree with you 100%!
Happy Valentine’s Day!
Haha, I wrote a novel comment on that post.
I don’t care if she wants to be a trophy wife. People can do what they want to do. But she has built it up in her mind as the ultimate thing, and I feel like she’s going to be disappointed with how her life will not match up with her fantasy.
A trophy wife is not someone who is equal in her marriage. She is there to make her husband look good and when she stops being able to do that, he will discard her.
It actually sounds like she wants to be a stay-at-home mom/wife. But that doesn’t evoke the same amount of glamor – she’d prefer to think she’s going to live like someone on gossip girl. Those groups are pretty insular though, and it’s hard to fit in if you’re not brought up that way.
It’s mean, but the word “delusional” comes to mind. I blame her family – it sounds like they taught her that her worth as a woman is dependent on her marriage. I just think it’s sad…
I have to agree, even though it’s so not PC right now. Everybody is all about “respecting each woman’s right to choose” to be a SAHM – and I DO respect that decision – but I still agree with just about everything you said.
I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t rely on and trust in one man, one income. Plus I’d feel pressured to do all the things I hate – cook, clean, doll myself up for him – and I’d fear that he would inevitably end up as bored and unsatisfied with me as I would be with myself.
I plan to be there for my kids (and I expect my future hubby to make himself available too), but I will have my own pursuits – managing rental properties, writing a book, blogging, maybe even staying in the workforce if I love my job.
And I hate to admit it, but I’m so glad I have money and savings and family support so that I don’t have to feel pressured to get married for financial stability. I realize not everyone has that privilege, but I wish they did.
Funny because I had read the article on LivingAlmostLarge.com and was writing a rebuttal and then I saw your post come up. You’re just right on top of things!
I really like the points you make. Reading Megan’s article made me cringe but hey, to every woman her own right!?
I think Megan is incredibly naive about what’s involved in being a trophy wife.
I believe a relationship should be a partnership. I think both partners should earn money, cook, clean, raise the kids, etc… I would never want to be a trophy wife. The idea makes my skin crawl. It seems like a sad existence to me. I need to contribute more than just good looks and nice hostess skills to a relationship.
Me too! I like having my own thing going on. Men love confident women who have lives and successes in their own right (outside of the marriage).
I would love to be able to stay home when I have kids, but until then (and after they are in school), I couldn’t imagine. I would be bored, and feel guilty if I did go out to the spa, and shopping sprees and lunch with the girls everyday.
I couldn’t agree more. Of course, I’m far from the stage of my life where I’d be thinking getting married (being a teenager), but every point you made seconds my opinion on this subject.
To me, the sort of life Megan envisions (mostly enjoying myself by the pool while my husband works to pay for it all) could never make me happy. As an adult, I want to have financial independence. Living in a typically patriarchal country like India, I’ve grown up feeling like the only way I can be positive that I can do what I want, is if I have the money to pay for it. I could never imagine living a life where I depended on someone else to pay for my needs and desires.
As for the opinion that a trophy wife would be repaying her husband by raising the kids and running the household, I am a true believer in complete equality in relationships, which means both partners having the same share in the raising of their children. I’m not a big supporter of the traditional roles of mother and father being the best or only way – I CAN be the breadwinner and a great mother (which I’ve seen firsthand), so why shouldn’t I stand on my own two feet? I want to be the kind of person who could make it alone with three kids and a shoebox apartment (not, of course, that that’s what I envision for myself. But I’d prefer it to being well off and well-fed, but knowing that the only thing keeping me from such a situation is my husband’s job.)
Also, the idea of spending my life cocooned in the lap of luxury is unimaginable to me. There’s a whole world out there – I want to travel and understand how different people live. It would almost seem a little ignorant to expect to have a blissful existence enabled entirely by the sweat off someone else’s back. That’s just how I see it.
Phew! I’m sorry for all the rambling. I respect that we all have the freedom to make our own choices, and choose what will make us happy. I’m just saying that it wouldn’t make ME happy.
Well said, FB!
Though I have a few things to add as a SAHW — though definitely NOT a trophy wife!
One, I think Bree would be insulted to be called a trophy wife. As someone more likely to be in the kitchen than the spa, she’s definitely a “professional” housewife, imho.
Two, I think we have to be careful talking about “earning” money. As a SAHW, my husband’s paycheck may be the bulk of our income, but we do consider it our money, earned by both of us as partners. I can’t say if that’s the same for every relationship, but he’d also say that I’ve been a huge help in helping him in his career. I don’t know how it works for trophy wives, but I’m sure that many feel that they’ve played their part (one which you’d definitely have to pay me a lot to live!). Of course, there is a special feeling when you see your name on the paycheck — I don’t dispute that.
I do agree that living on one income can be precarious. I’d advise any SAH partner to do their research and make sure that they’ve protected themselves financially as best as possible — and made sure that it’s worth it. Personally, I don’t think that our income would be nearly as high if things had worked out as we had planned and I was in the work force. Not to mention, as a local teacher I’d have been laid off this week anyhow — if not sooner.
Finally, I do still value my degree even though I didn’t end up using it directly. I learned a lot in addition to the facts I memorized for tests and grew a lot as a person. I do think that it’s helped me be a better partner and a more interesting person in general. That said, from a financial perspective, I don’t recommend that anyone pile up a lot of student loan debt unless they are sure that they’re going to get their money’s worth (though I’ll leave it to them to decide what that means).