I don’t know if any of you are losers like me, but when I was in the hotel room last month, I caught this show many times on TLC Jon and Kate + 8, about this family that had twin girls, and then decided to have a third child and ended up having sextuplets (6 kids).
Now, they say it’s a touchy, sensitive issue to talk about whether they did in vitro fertilization (IVF), but …. I’m sorry, twins and THEN 6 kids? That has to be a hell of a coincidence, or she’s just.. ridiculously fertile. So fertile that if he looks at her, she gets pregnant.
That’s another discussion for another day.
Anyway, they are this incredible hit on the show and how could they not be? They are ADORABLE! Look at that family. They ooze cuteness.
What I find interesting about the entire thing, is that in today’s world we find 8 kids in a family to be national news. Barring the fact that they are twins and sextuplets (which is amazing on its own), to have 8 kids in a family is the REAL news. Can you imagine raising 8 kids? 6 of them being babies all at once?
They must be Super Parents, that’s for sure. And they are sure to have gotten a lot of help from advertisers and companies wanting them to feature or use their products.
But in the past, 8 kids wasn’t a lot. I guess that was a normal family size. I remember my mom being part of 18 kids, and my dad being part of an 18 kid family.
They had HUGE families back then, and no one blinked an eye. But with the rising costs of childcare – it apparently costs a quarter of a million to get a baby fed, clothed and raised all the way to out of the house at the end of high school. This does NOT include college tuition!
I don’t know how they do it, because they’re a modern family with a modern home and they send their kids to school.
The reason why I say that is because the Duggars for example are an extremely religious family that just keeps having kids like bunnies because the parents decided to have as many kids as God was going to give them. That means no birth control or stopping sex… it means.. constant sex, which means constant pregnancies.
It’s also because Michelle, the mom, was on birth control before, and when they finally decided to have children, they lost their first child. They blamed the birth control (very plausible) and decided to never use any form of birth control ever again.
Here’s their family photo.
I heard they were up to 19 kids by now, so I may be missing a couple of young’uns in there.
I had so many questions going through my head when I heard this, and here are the answers in short form.
They were out of debt completely by the twelfth child (WOW!).
The older kids take care of the younger ones on a Buddy system, which is brilliant. Leaves mom a chance to get knocked up again.
They do NOT send their kids to school, they are home schooled by mom (something I’d never want for my kids because they have to grow up around kids who aren’t blood just to learn what ‘life’ is about… again, another topic, another day)
They clearly sew their own clothes and do everything the frugal way like buying en masse, to even building their own massive mansion (featured in the background), which I can bet was furnished for free by advertisers who just wanted to get in on the action. The inside of the home is GORGEOUS.
They hold their own masses inside their home because there is so many of them.
Their oldest boy is already MARRIED, and he’s.. what, 20? He’s super religious too.
They are ridiculously polite, well behaved and they kind of look like dream kids who do their chores around the house when mom asks them to. They seem pretty darn perfect in terms of family dynamic to me. Sure, there’s no privacy between each of them but they love being with their brothers and sisters so much, it’s incredible.
Especially when you consider how far apart my siblings and I are…
THAT, my readers, is amazing.
You then look at the stats for today’s family and you see that we’re averaging at 1.5 kids (er.. the half is a baby I think), 2 maximum. When you mention you want 3 kids or 4 kids, people give you the eye like: ARE YOU MAD?
I personally like big families because I grew up with 2 siblings and I would’ve liked a sister to play with when I was younger. But the minimum family size for me is 3 kids, just because it’s what I grew up with.
And people are always giving me stats about how a First World baby will cause THIS much pollution, THIS much waste, and on and on and on.
Well, the Duggars are a prime example of how they may NOT be causing so much waste. I bet you they thought about using cloth diapers (or have used them), but I do know that the big corporations have been sending them lots of free disposable diapers.
But most importantly, they don’t fall into the trap of buying things like makeup for the girls, or fancy iPods for everyone… Not every First World child has to be a huge footprint on the earth.
We have choices in how we live our lives, and if we live it a little greener, consume less, buy less and live with less, we could make a difference.
On the flip side, no kids at all is an option for a lot of couples.
I totally respect couples who don’t want to have kids at all.
They can save SO MUCH MORE money, and live such a life that we could only dream of – like jetting off to Thailand for a week just on a whim. And if they’re happy without kids, I don’t see why society has to pressure EVERY couple who’s married to have kids.
That’s the worst. It’s almost like being single at a family function and getting asked: So, have you met Mr. Right yet?
You almost want to turn around and slug them because they just ruined the turkey and stuffing basting in your belly with such a rude unwarranted question about your love life.
For those childless couples, they get questions like: Now that you’re married, where are the kids?
Uh, not EVERYONE that gets married has to have kids at all, or right away! Chill out! We live in a world where we can freeze eggs and buy sperm from a bank.
Having children is not for everyone, but those who have them and choose to have them, say that having kids change their life. I can only hope that those kids grow up well-behaved and polite instead of being those little brats I see in the malls sometimes.
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
A kid costs over half a million dollars. I mean you have to feed it 3 times a day times 365 days a year times 20 years. The lowest estimate for a kid is $600 per month. If you invest $600 every month in good stocks @ 12 percent compounded monthly then after 20 years you will have $588,489.
Many people don't understand math or the power of compounding that's why they have a kid.
I heard the stats was half a million until they were 17. Then past 17, you’re talking college tuition and so on.
They are very expensive to have these days, even more so if you think you need the latest and greatest in baby wear & baby wares..
I lvoe big families. Maybe not as big as the families that you mentioned in your post, but my FI & I would like 4 children.
A blog you might want to check out re: large, frugal families is thehappyhousewife.com. I just found it the other day, but it seems to have a lot of good content on it.
I did not want kids, and my first husband as an only child was quite on board with that. Then I met my current husband and one of the first things I thought about him was what would it be like to have kids with him since I think he will make a great father! Totally changed my view.
That being said, we are waiting until he finishes his masters degree before trying for kids, even though we will be in our low to mid 30s by that time.
I am youngest of two, he is oldest of three. We will probably go for two or three, but not much more.
I think I’m what people would call “very religious”. My husband and I’ve been married 2 years, but don’t know if we want kids or not. I’m 28. We both believe in birth control! But I just don’t know. I feel like I need to make a decision by the time I’m 30. My Dr told me I need to seriously start thinking about it. But, I feel so young, and just don’t know… I kind of like it being the 2 of us. And neither of us are maternal. However, I don’t want to miss out, and I know when people do have kids they love them to bits, and wouldn’t change a thing.
I’m 33 and always thought I wanted 2 to 3 kids (I’m the oldest of 2). Now that I’m in my 30s, though, and reality is setting in (financial and otherwise), sometimes I think that 1 might be enough. And I could give that child a good education and plenty of attention. Most only children I know, adult and otherwise, are awesome people, contrary to popular belief. There are several sets of twins on both sides of my family, so two it may be! 🙂 Alas–my 40-year-old boyfriend of two-and-a-half years seems to be a bit ambivalent about having kids. He’s great with them, but I think the idea of having his own to raise scares him. He’s adopted, too, which gives him a different perspective.
39 comments, wow, remind me to post about the Duggars one day! I DVRd the wedding special!
Why, OH WHY???, did you have to feed my trashy television problem?
i heard that the duggars, because they have enough people to be their own ‘congregation,’ can legally claim part of their abode as a church. Just *think* of the tax implications!
Like you say, BRILLIANT. crazy and unfair to the kids from my perspective, but brilliant.
I never wanted any kids, ended up having 1 and am so grateful for him! My dad was an only child, who hated it, had 5 kids, of whom I'm one. I wasn't too crazy about being 1 of 5. When I had one and made it clear I was having no more, my dad was very unhappy with me. I had to remind him that my (now ex) husband and I weren't his parents and that our son wasn't him. He never mentioned it to me again. We all have to make that decision based on our own reality.
I love Jon & Kate Plus 8!
No kids, now or ever. I like kids, but the thought of being pregnant personally freaks the bejibbers out of me. More than that, however, I just don’t want them. Like them, absolutely. Want them, no.
I could probably get on board with the idea of stepkids at some point, but certainly no time soon.
I love Jon & Kate plus 8. They are so funny.
I have four sisters, and its great now. But it kinda sucked when we were younger. I want to have four kids, I think anything over that is kinda pushing it. 🙂
I don't think there is a typical family size. Families are so blended these days, it's becoming more common to have "large families." Example – I am 1 of 9; My dad had a daughter before he met my mom, then came me; then they divorced and both remarried. My mom had 3 more kids and my stepmom had 2 kids. My stepdad had 2 children from his first marriage.
BTW, as a few others have noted, Jon & Kate are very open about using fertility treatment after experiencing trouble conceiving on their own. After having the twins, they wanted one more, and ended up with sextuplets. The way I understand it, fertility treatment is simply fertilization happening outside of the body – meaning more than one sperm and more than one egg. In some cases, this will result in multiples. It is not something that is chosen ahead of time.
Should we as a society really continue to glorify large families? I think God encouraged people to have large families because they were necessary given the high labor effort required to produce food and basic goods, and the likelihood that many of the children would not survive.
I watched a program about the Duggars a few years ago. They get a LOT of help, financial and otherwise, from their church community and others. Their lifestyle may be frugal on a per capita basis but having that many children is an unaffordable luxury for most people and, indeed, the world.
That said, I think the togetherness and connection of a larger family is nice and I wouldn’t mind having one if only the world could support it. Unfortunately in order to support everyone having children there needs to be a lot of war and disease to take out all the excess people, something I would never wish on any society.
I would prefer that society change so that ALL people are not pressured to have children and that it is very OK to have none. If lots of people had no children then more people who want large families could have them.
I think the ideal family size depends on the parents and their desires. Far be it from me to tell other people what to do. No kids is fine, 2 kids is fine, 18 kids is fine, as long as YOU are willing to take responsibility for raising your own kids.
On a sidenote, I do agree the Duggars are frugal, but most people, no matter how frugal, probably can’t support 18 kids. The Duggars are able to support 18 kids because they make a considerable amount in real estate investments and freebies/deals and they have more flexible schedules than most. Mr. Duggar also has deep connections that help him secure some of these deals–he served in the State House of Representatives and was once a senate candidate.
We’re choosing not to have kids. So far, so good. Heading into our thirties some of our friends are just starting to have kids and it’s been interesting to watch. Whenever we hear of child terrors or an insane day care bill, my husband and I high five and tell ourselves, “cats, not brats.”
People are CONSTANTLY telling us 1. we’ll change our minds 2. We’re two young to know what we want 3. We’re being selfish or 4. We’re going to die alone
Why do they care so much???
I’m thinking 2, possibly 3 if we have two of the same sex.
After seeing Mr. rack up $60k in student debt at a state school, I’m adamant that I need to be able to pay for roughly half of each kid’s college education, so I really can’t afford more than 2 or 3.I don’t want them working a full time job and taking a full course load at the same time. Mr. did it while majoring in Mechanical Engineering and it stunk.
I guess I get that mindset from my mom. Although we could easily have lived off my father’s salary, she worked for 30 years so my brother and I could be debt free when they graduated college and start with a clean slate. I don’t want my kids to start out $50-100k (or more at the rate things are going) in the hole.
– Frugal Urbanite
I don’t know how in the heck people calculate a quarter of a million — and not even counting college.
I know my mom didn’t spend that much on any of us (4 total — and I have four more brothers from my dad’s side, too). I know she didn’t spend that much because she didn’t have it to spend.
When I was growing up, my mom and I didn’t have a lot of money, especially after my dad passed away, but I never felt poor. We just didn’t eat out a lot or buy a lot of unnecessary stuff. We lived in an old farm house and most people thought we were rich because of that.
I’ve heard that things were a lot rougher when my mom was raising three of my siblings after a divorce, but they still turned out alright. My mom did what she had to do — like always.
Yet even knowing that she’s done it, I feel so unprepared financially for children. And frankly, I don’t know if I’m really that interested in having kids. I we did have kids, though, I think my husband and I would prefer 2-3 (with hopefully at least one girl).
I was happy to see Chelsey’s comment on here! I am also what most people would consider a “religious fanatic.” That being said, my husband and I have been married for 2+ years, never used birth control (we practice Natural Family Planning), and have been trying (unsuccessfully) to get pregnant for over a year. It has been so difficult. Society and culture groom us to believe that as soon as we’re “ready” we can have a kid, and as many kids as we want! My husband and I would LOVE a big family, but we aren’t saying, “We are having 5 kids” – that’s not for us to decide, that’s up to God. We are open to life in whatever way he wants to bless us; obviously we hope to have many children, but if not we will look into adoption.
Also, I believe that the Duggars and other large, devout families like them are much, MUCH happier families than a large number of American families today. The Duggars place so much emphasis on EACH OTHER and spending time as a family, rather than having the latest electronic gadgets, clothing, etc. What is more important?!
In response to Former Fat Chick’s comment, I believe that families like the Duggars may very well provide their kids with MORE emotional nurturing than a standard 2-child contemporary family. Most of these families send their kids to daycare all day (which I understand some families HAVE to do in order to sustain themselves, but many families CHOOSE to do so that they can have the nicer things in life). I think any kid would MUCH rather have a mom at home with them than have an iPod, etc.
I’m the oldest of 6, and my boyfriend is the youngest of 2. We don’t want children.
I think it is interesting that most of the respondents are planning (or not) but don’t have kids yet. Sometimes, plans change. We had two kids and were fine with that and then, oops, a one night memory lapse and we have three. Procrastination is a bitch. dh had his surgery during that third pregnancy. Three is a LOT more than two. I can imagine four, it wouldn’t make that big a difference. You are already out of the ‘family of four’ bubble which as mentioned previously applies to vacation packages, restaurants, even simple hotel accomodations (Only 2 kids allowed, really? should I let the 6 year old have her own hotel room then?), and good luck finding a vehicle that is not massive and can still fit three carseats across a back seat.
Three kids meant I was only breaking even once daycare/gas/commuting time etc was factored in, so I became a stay at home mom. I like it now (it was a BIG change) because I cannot imagine getting three kids out the door and to the sitter in time for me to get to work!
Fortunately, I have all girls so toys and clothes get passed on. As far as outings I have to be careful, and remind my ‘only’ friends that whatever they have planned with the kids, I have to multiply by three.
Couples without kids I have great respect for because I think it takes a lot of courage to be true to those feelings of not wanting to be a parent.
Thanks for the discussion post FB.
I LOVE Jon and Kate + 8 and the Duggars are just creepy. That is WAY too many kids and they are WAY too well behaved. I think they’re brainwashed.
I’m biased here because I don’t want kids, but I don’t think kids should outnumber their parents.
I am 1 of 3, and my hubs is 1 of 9. With out being mean…you can not provide THAT many kids the individula attention and emotional nurturing they need. An older sister caring for you is NOT YOUR MOM. I think it is harder on the female children, self esteem, feeling they have a place in the family and thier responsiblilties seemed very high. Maybe it’s just my crazy in laws…
Right on Mittsie! I have been engaged for 3 years also and am in no huge hurry to get married and have babies quite yet. I do want to have some one day though, and I think three would be a great number for me. My parents are both one of four and I always felt like I was missing out by only having one sibling. However I cannot imagine 8-20 kids! But, I want a career outside the home in addition to my family. I just don’t know how that would be possible with that many kids.
I looooove John and Kate +8, but I don’t like the other family. A little too odd for me! John and Kate are super sweet to each other and seem to have a great family unit going, but I’m for sure opting for my small family of four once I get around to having kids of my own… which could be… never? ha ha, but the smaller the better!
I am an only child and I really wish I had siblings as it was quite lonely growing up sometimes. However for all the bad things people say about only children being spoilt and attention seekers, I would argue that being an OC gives you great skills at talking to people and making friends as I always had to get out there and find other kids to play with when i was little!
When I get married and have kids I would like a big family. As many as I can afford not just with money but with my health. And not so many that I turn into a big fat baby making machine haha!
Jon & Kate have been open about the fact that all their children were conceived through IVF. I do love watching their show! 🙂
In my family, there are 8 children. I have two “real” siblings and then five “adopted”…
But as for me, my minimum is 2- maximum 3. I think that with too many running around, it’s too hard to give everyone the attention they need or not be yelling over people anytime you need to say something!!
And the Duggars live like 20 min. away from me– but I’ve never seen them. I always keep my eye out when I go to their town though!! Haha
i generally LOVE reading your blog- but it seems lately you’ve got nothing to write about? Lately the FB blog has become a bit hum drum with “news fill”.
They openly talked about doing IV twice. You’re typically pretty factual.. lately you’ve been bumming me out.
This isn’t a hater comment- its a love comment cause I miss the good FB!
As Mittsie said, I don’t plan on kidlets. I LOOOOOVE kids, but with my genes (I have oodles of health problems, and psychiatric issues), I don’t want to pass them on. I also would want to be ACTIVE in my kids’ lives, and with my physical disabilities, that may not always be possible.
So I borrow my friends’ kidlets, and look forward to nieces and nephews.
Luckily, my partner doesn’t want kids either (except that he doesn’t really like kids…so he says, until he gets around our friends’ adorable wee ones and he plays with them). So it works well.
As for HUUUUUGE families, my man always says “You only keep having kids like that if you want a baseball team or an army.” 😉 LOL.
When I was young, I wanted like 3-4 kids. Big family, my kids would have siblings, etc. Then I was a bit older and wanted 2 kids.
Then I started dating my guy, who doesn’t really want them at all. And I tried to figure out if I’d be ok with that.
Right now I’m at the point where I definitely don’t want them any time soon, but I think I’d like one at some point. Though the idea of having all the extra money and none of the stress is sometimes very tempting.
I’ve seen both of those shows and it’s amazing. I don’t know how they do it. Personally, I’m not sure if I want kids. I mean, I think I do, but I spend 8 hours every day with kids now. It’s nice to send them packing at 4:15pm and not have to see them on the weekends 😉 I just can’t fatham leaving work and going home to my own kids!
Regarding the size of a family, I think that’s obviously a personal decision, and IVF or not, if a person wants a large family, then they are absolutely entitled to it!
My husband and I are both only children, so we have a 2 child maximum — we wouldn’t know what to do with a large brood. But we also do not plan on having children for quite some time (he is moving away in June and we will have several years of a long-distance marriage, and I DO NOT want to basically turn into a single mother for the years while he is gone).
People are constantly asking us about children, and I find that it is SO RUDE. I don’t care if you are a close family member… when I have news to share, I will share it with you. Asking me about my plans just makes me NOT want to tell you when the time comes. My mother had 7 miscarriages, and my MIL had two. What happens if I have problems getting pregnant and am not able to have children? Asking me about it constantly will just make me feel like a failure as a woman.
I get hooked to those shows too! But I could never have that many kids, yikes! I hope to have two, maybe three kids in the future.
My mom comes from a family of 10 so I always grew up with an abundance of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., but like you said its expensive to raise kids these days..ideally i would like 3 but BF only agreed to 2…we’ll see about that *wink*….lol jk! 🙂
I am totally addicted to these shows– I don’t have TV, but when I travel I always try to catch at least a couple episodes.
I think the Duggar family is a little on the crazy side though. In one episode I clearly remember that Michelle had to find a different doctor becuase her current one advised her not to have another child, for the mere fact that her insides could basically just come out along with the baby… for real. (And would be fatal due to loss of blood.) If this was the case, I sure as hell hope my husband would value my life enough and have enough common sense to wear a condom.
I understand religious preference/belief, but shouldn’t this mother of 17ish kids be around to see her grandchildren? At what point do you say enough is enough?
Have one child by adoption and hoping to add one more by adoption this year and possibly bio after that. I would LOVE to have 3. After 3 I have to negotiate with my husband since he is a stay-at-home dad 🙂
I was an only child… lonely. I don’t want that for my kids.
I thought I wanted no more than 3 kids up until last year when the hubs and I met a family much like the Duggars. And I will agree with you- big families who are very spiritually solid do seem to produce some of the most polite, unselfish kids out there. So I have to praise them for that. I wouldn’t totally want to adopt the lifestyle for my family, but I don’t think anyone out there can criticize it. And.. this is just my personal opinion (rather not get flamed), but- while the ‘big family’ factor plays a big role in how the kids turn out, I think it’s much more the fact that they’re raised by parents who are holding high standards and proper morals.
Actually, Jon & Kate have been quite open regarding how they got pregnant. Both of Kate's pregnancy's were from IUI (inter-uterine insemination) not from IVF. Jon and Kate have went as far as to say they are not a fertility success story, they are a fertility nightmare. The goal of fertility treatment is one baby, not two, three, or six. I hate that I feel the need to defend them, or anyone that has had fertility treatment, because I have. I now have two healthy twin girls, but reality is, fertility or lack there of is personal. Like your comment about single people being asked if they met mister right or a newly married couple being asked when they are having kids. People with muliple children (especially twins, triplets, etc.) don't like being asked if they did fertlity treatment, etc. It's personal.
**Hopping off my soapbox.
I thought you might be interested to know that Jon & Kate on TLC are actually quite open about having used IUI to get pregnant! I believe Kate have PCOS or something similar and was unable to get pregnant naturally! 🙂
My grandparents were part of huge families, 10 and 11, but my parents weren’t and I’m an only. I think two would be perfect, I don’t have the energy or resources to raise more! Mr M is anti-kid, but he knows he is doomed to have them. Years ago I told him he’d have to find someone else cause I wanted one or two (we’re not married yet), he’s still here. My best friend didn’t want kids but her husband would leave her if she didn’t, she had a baby girl back in June. She loves her daughter but has said definitely no more, one and done.
When you have kids (or decide to have kids) you realize that the world is set up to accomodate “a family of four”. Vacation packages, cars, restaurants, they all offer specials and accomodations for “two adults and up to two children”…
Mittsie: If you’re worried about having kids because your gene pool, have you considered adoption?
I guess I’m what you would consider “super religious,” although I wouldn’t necessarily use those terms.
I don’t know so much about Jon + Kate. From what I’ve read, they’re Christians, but I think they used in vitro fertilization, so they weren’t necessarily planning on having as many kids as they did (although they *clearly* love them and are doing a great job raising them).
But as far as the Duggars, I think that regardless of your views on religion, social theory, etc., you have to agree that they are consistent. First of all, even though they have 19 kids (I think the most recent one was born around Christmas), they don’t produce a lot of waste, and they are definitely frugal. Additionally, because they are Christians, their having kids in the way they did was something that was in line with what the Bible teaches. They believe children are a blessing, so they have as many as possible. They believe that God is in control of all things, so they don’t worry about how they’ll have money to feed their kids.
As for me, I’m getting married in just a few months, and my fiance and I are going into our marriage with the same mindset, I guess, as the Duggars. We’re not planning to use birth control. And that’s because we believe that God opens and closes the womb (there are tons of examples of God doing this in the Bible). Some people who don’t use birth control never have kids. Some have 19. We don’t know what God’s plan is for us, but because we’re waiting until marriage to have sex, we are ecstatic at the idea of getting married and having lots of kids. I can’t wait.
One more thing, since this is already ridiculously long. I think that while you’re right that the cost of childcare has increased, I think that the true reason people have stopped having more than 2 kids is because a lot of people think that they have to give their kids everything. I came from a “religious” family, but my dad has always been great with money, and yet I never felt deprived. I didn’t get a cell phone until I was 18, and I didn’t get a digital camera or an iPod until I was in college (the camera was a gift, I bought the iPod myself). You can raise a lot of kids with not a lot of money if you focus on what’s truly important.
OK. Done. 🙂
Chelsey
familycrouch.blogspot.com
When I was in my teens and early twenties I didn’t want any children at all. Now that I’ll be 30 in a couple of weeks, we have decided to have 2 children. Well, that’s if we only have 2 (my fiancé has twins on both sides all generations so 2 could turn into 3). But the plan is 2, now if I didn’t have to work and could afford to stay home I’d likely consider more but since someone else has to raise my children and I have to pay them- 2 it is. Besides I don’t know how we’ll afford them anyway- but I guess you just do.
OMG…LOVE this post. Def. going on my shared items, thanks for that info by the way!!!
My husband and I have been married a little over 3 years and have I have a stepson and nephew I love as my own, but none of my own children…and quite frankly I haven’t made the final decision whether I want kids…I know it will either be a)no kids or b)1 kid….but you are 100% right, if we tell people we don’t want kids we get a look that says “are you insane…what’s wrong with you….you selfish, inconsiderate…yada yada..”
Here is a link to a similiar post I did: http://lifeiswonderful7.blogspot.com/2008/01/because-society-says-so.html
UGH. Since Peter & I have been engaged for 3 years … we're in no hurry for a wedding (actually, I see "marriage" and "common-law marriage" as the same thing, just "marriage" has a piece of paper with it), but almost every time I talk to Mom on the phone, she has to interject – "So have you started planning the wedding?" … uh, no – setting a date would be first there, darling.
And as for children, I don't want any – with the anxiety & mood disorders in my family that are hereditary, I don't want any child to bear that burden. 'Cause I know what it's like. So I told Mom I didn't want any children, and she had a FIT. Apparently I'll "change my mind" & want kids. Nope, I think I'll save my money & spoil my nieces & nephews. 😉