Lilli: Hi. The point with splitting bothers me enormously. I earn about twice what my boyfriend does and have been paying always about twice as he does on any activity, we do together. But it botheres me. I makes difficult for me to see him as a man. And especially bothers me, that it doesn’t bother him at all. 🙁 You know, it’s like man should pay on a first date. May be same kind of emotion.
Men, Women and Money have been hot topics of debate and discussion for a long, LONG time.
It’s just a general observation but it’s my rule that the man always pays for the first date, unless the woman asked – but in my case, I never ask guys out, so I never pay.
It’s archaic, it’s probably breaking all the rules, but as a woman, it’s nice to be treated once in a while even with an archaic formality even if it’s outdated.
But it’s just a switch to hear a woman say that she pays twice as much for everything, and feels resentment. I certainly felt that way when I paid for everything. But I’m not so sure that it’s gender-related. If a man paid for everything, he’d (as a human), eventually feel used and resentful as well.
The only thing that’s gender related may be that in society (in general), the societal norms regarding men and women are fairly clear (but changing):
Man = Protector of Family
Woman = Nurturer/Caregiver
I’m not saying it’s a good or a bad thing, I’m just making an observation that it’s how society has been brought up to feel and think for the past 50+ years (think 1950s housewife with a martini in her hand, and a vacuum cleaner in the other, trussed up in heels, sexy housewife lingerie under her crisply pressed dress, waiting for her husband to come home from work).
Now, a man can be a stay at home husband, or a manny (male nanny), and the woman can be the President of her company and bring home the bacon.
Based on those societal norms, the man doesn’t mind paying for the woman all the time because it’s more accepted and kind of one of those “I not only kill the bacon, I bring it home to take care of my woman” sort of deal, and it affirms his role as the Protector.
In the reverse, if the woman pays for the man most of the time, there’s confusion in their expected roles now.
Is she the Protector now? And does that make the man the Caregiver then?
Financially, there are clearly disparities between incomes, but it’s not necessarily true that the man always earns more than the woman. That IS the case most of the time (it certainly is in mine, he earns a third more than I do), but in expenses and life, we are equal. There ARE cases where the woman makes more, and some women just can’t handle that because their view of their man as the Protector is distorted and they feel uncomfortable.
Totally understandable.
It’s something that I’m sure couples and families struggle with on a regular basis, because we have these deep-seated notions of what a man does for a family/couple and what a woman does.
And because we have these ingrained notions, when the roles are reversed, our parts and our feelings are up in the air because now we don’t know how to act in this new role.
I’m sure you’ve all heard that argument before, but now the real discussion begins – how do we change or deal with the situation now?
But my solution is pretty simple:
Everyone pays half (50%) and their fair share.
If the guy can only pay $500 a month for rent, then the rent amount should be $1000, so that the woman can pay for the other $500.
If the cost of concert tickets is $170 a person and the woman can’t afford that, the guy can treat her and buy both tickets, but there shouldn’t be a weird mix up of payment where the woman pays $85 and the guy pays the remainder.
It’s either a treat/gift or it’s not.
I understand that then, there’ll be differences because the guy or the woman can’t always afford everything the other wants to do, especially given the disparity in their incomes. In that case, that’s an emotional balance that needs to be worked out to make it so that the woman doesn’t go alone or with a friends to a spa every weekend blowing $500, while the guy sits at home because he’s broke.
That’s a relationship issue that has to be worked out, but the only fair way to deal with equality in today’s world is to really make it equal.
Actually come to think of it, our unspoken rule between BF and I is that if it’s his friends we meet for coffee or dinner, he pays. If it’s my friends, I pay. It’s not a hard and fast rule, but it’s something we’re following as an unspoken agreement between us. Of course, we do treat each other to coffee or something once in a while as well.
If the woman or the man decides to pay for the other as a treat or a gift, it should be done out of love and respect rather than with a feeling of obligatory resentment.
Which is why 50/50 to me, in everyday expenses is the way to go.
But treats, gifts, birthdays, first dates and other special events are exceptions to that rule. We all have to live SOME TIME 🙂
Just a girl trying to find a balance between being a Shopaholic and a Saver.
I cleared $60,000 in 18 months earning $65,000 gross/year.
Now I am self-employed, and you can read more about 
As an ardent feminist working the arts, I spent years doing the 50/50 split to maintain my pride. Until I sat down and did the math about what that meant, given that my partner makes 1/3 more than I do.
It meant that I was always low on cash, and didn’t have the opportunity to go out socially as often, without “a gift” or “loan.”
It meant that I felt guilty about any vacation or purchase “we” made that “I” couldn’t afford because 1/3 more of my income (percentage-wise) went to bills than his did.
It meant I worried about money, and he never ever did. And I came to resent it.
Sometimes 50/50 does not mean 50/50, if you get my drift. I am definitely on the Suze Orman side of this. I am thrilled to see that there are so many women earning more than their male partners. But women continue to earn less than men, when gauged against their peers.
So you are earning 100K. A man doing your job is earning 117K in your same field. But your partner, who works in a different field, earns 40K. Well, guess how much a woman at his level and in his field probably makes? You got it. 17% less than he does.
Obviously emotions and pride, not to mention gendered assumptions of “roles,” has a lot to do with how a couple manages their money. I would never say there’s a “right” way and a “wrong” way. But I think both men and women need to wake up to the reality of what “fair” means in our contemporaneous world.
Fair means that if you make 2/3 more than your partner, you contribute 2/3 more to the communal pot. I would revise that for the partner who happens to (as is the case with many women I know) be the main wage earner AND the main house-tender. Unfortunately no one, including Orman, has come up with an effective way of putting a dollar value on housekeeping. I recommend taking the going rate of a local housecleaner. If a cleaning person makes $60 a day to clean your house, then factor that in to your “contribution,” and keep more of your cash for yourself.
I know so many people (men and women) who get royally taken advantage of by their pride–the desire to “appear” equal, even when it means indebting themselves in terms of money, time or energy.
Making 60K, I could never compete with my partner who makes 90K. If our rent is 1000, then the 500 I pay is a way bigger chunk of my take-home than his. And that’s not 50/50.
Just my two cents.
P.S. I will be happy, if and when the day comes that I make more money than my partner, to take over the heavier end of the stick. It would not make me think less of him as a man. As for how he feels about that…well, only time will tell.
As an ardent feminist working the arts, I spent years doing the 50/50 split to maintain my pride. Until I sat down and did the math about what that meant, given that my partner makes 1/3 more than I do.
It meant that I was always low on cash, and didn’t have the opportunity to go out socially as often, without “a gift” or “loan.”
It meant that I felt guilty about any vacation or purchase “we” made that “I” couldn’t afford because 1/3 more of my income (percentage-wise) went to bills than his did.
It meant I worried about money, and he never ever did. And I came to resent it.
Sometimes 50/50 does not mean 50/50, if you get my drift. I am definitely on the Suze Orman side of this. I am thrilled to see that there are so many women earning more than their male partners. But women continue to earn less than men, when gauged against their peers.
So you are earning 100K. A man doing your job is earning 117K in your same field. But your partner, who works in a different field, earns 40K. Well, guess how much a woman at his level and in his field probably makes? You got it. 17% less than he does.
Obviously emotions and pride, not to mention gendered assumptions of “roles,” has a lot to do with how a couple manages their money. I would never say there’s a “right” way and a “wrong” way. But I think both men and women need to wake up to the reality of what “fair” means in our contemporaneous world.
Fair means that if you make 2/3 more than your partner, you contribute 2/3 more to the communal pot. I would revise that for the partner who happens to (as is the case with many women I know) be the main wage earner AND the main house-tender. Unfortunately no one, including Orman, has come up with an effective way of putting a dollar value on housekeeping. I recommend taking the going rate of a local housecleaner. If a cleaning person makes $60 a day to clean your house, then factor that in to your “contribution,” and keep more of your cash for yourself.
I know so many people (men and women) who get royally taken advantage of by their pride–the desire to “appear” equal, even when it means indebting themselves in terms of money, time or energy.
Making 60K, I could never compete with my partner who makes 90K. If our rent is 1000, then the 500 I pay is a way bigger chunk of my take-home than his. And that’s not 50/50.
Just my two cents.
P.S. I will be happy, if and when the day comes that I make more money than my partner, to take over the heavier end of the stick. It would not make me think less of him as a man. As for how he feels about that…well, only time will tell.
I know this is an older post, but I have been thinking about it a lot. [not for 3 weeks, but came across it again in the carnival!)
For vacations and fun stuff, we usually do about 50/50.
For meals out, I pay about 3/4 of the time, and that is ok with me. I could go out more often without him (spend my food budget on myself only!) and pay for us only as often as he can afford to match, but this is better. He contributes a bit to groceries, but I doubt it equals what he eats. Close enough.
We don’t plan to live together until we are married (more due to his univ. housing contract than “morality”) but we fully intend to combine finances completely, giving us roughly equivalent spending money. If that doesn’t work for some reason, we’ll talk about it, and switch it up. We are in a temporary phase (aka, grad school) where he makes much less than I do.
Different things work for different couples. The most important thing is to find something both people are comfortable with, and both people being able to speak up if something isn’t working for them. A lot of people are comfortable with 50/50, a lot are comortable with income based splits. Whatever. If your realtionship is healthy emotionally, you should be able to make it healthy financially.
GREAT topic. I’m going to post more about it in my own blog soon, but I wanted to weigh in quickly that I agree with you about first dates. Fine, it’s archaic–but I like to be CHOSEN and treated. Early on in my relationship with my boyfriend, he would not let me pay until I asked him on a date and planned it. That was our fourth date, I think–he kept asking me again before I got a chance.
Now we’re doing a challenge to spend only a set limit for food per month which includes groceries, dining out and dates. It makes it a lot more even and it doesn’t matter so much who pays for what. It’s sort of like combining expenses, I guess, but we’re not living together. Since we eat almost every single meal together, it makes sense and we’re both spending what we’re comfortable with–plus we’re cooking together a lot more, and that’s more fun than going out to eat (I think).
I'm with Laura. Long-term partnerships need to be about the team.
We pool all our money, pay the bills out of that, and if we have any left over (hey, we're working on it!), we split it between savings & the 2 of us.
That way, we both get play money, & we can treat each other if one of us wants to do something that isn't in the budget, they can treat if they have the cash.
FB thank You for putting that on the discussion.
I realize, that I am not the only one in the situation, where woman earns a lot more than the guy. And I try to understand more, what annoys me exactly in paying double (kind of similar situation as anonymous). Comments from others folk help to see the situation from different point of view (FB, dog, laura). Ideas like from Meg or Kate help to see what can i handle differently.
Guys… pay for your girls ALL THE TIME. Period.
Why? That’s just the way it works.
There’s my 2 cents.
Agreed: men pay for the first date.
i don’t understand how this happened. who’s idea was it to pay 2x as much for the same expenses used equally? if it was his and she feels resentful, then she needs to say something. how does she know he’s not using her?? obviously this guy can’t afford the lifestyle she likes or they like or whatever. remember all those women who support their boyfriend through grad school/med school and then get dumepd after their man graduates. waiting to exhale!!!!
If I had Lilli’s boyfriend I would have broken up with him a LOOOONG time ago. I could never be in a relationship where I felt like that about finances. Wake-up Lilli… he’s not going to change and be the MAN that you want.
As for sharing expenses in general. I have come up with my own plan for the future which is similar to Kate’s comment, but involving a little more proportionality.
Each partner contributes a percentage of their salary to the common pot (say 65%). The other 45% goes to the individual for whatever he/she wants. Out of the 65% comes bills, rent, vacations, whatever else will be shared. Out of the individual 45% comes whatever the individual wants to buy. That way there shouldn’t be any resentment. I won’t have to pay for his comic-book obsession and he won’t be contributing to my Louis Vuitton affair.
At the moment, my guy pays for EVERYTHING we share, and I mean EVERYTHING. He refuses any of my offers to contribute, but appreciates it when I make a surprise purchase (a gift because i thought of him, sneak my card to the waiter, etc). Lilli, my boyfriend is the MAN I want.
Just remember ladies. Money issues are usually the cause of divorce, but the underlying issue is POWER. If you both agree on the power distribution from the get-go, you’re much more likely to have a successful relationship. Bottom-Line: COMMUNICATE. Have the awkward discussion before it’s too late.
Thanks for everyone who weighed in..
@ Dog: IF that works for you, go for it!… But I’m in a position where BF makes double what I do.
AND he’s more established, with more cash, etc.. But we roughly spend the same amount of money even if I earn less than him.
Granted, it might seem a bit odd because I DO make a good wage (for the time being, we’ll see what happens later), so it’s all moot in some people’s perspectives.
With that being said, I don’t believe that anything other than 50/50 is appropriate except in unusual circumstances (none of which I can think of).
If I can’t afford to go out (i.e., I wanted to go to a restaurant), and I am not able to pay for the both of us as a treat, I don’t go out or even bother suggesting we do so.
If BF wants to go out, then he pays for the meals in its entirety.
The only things that BF pays for on his own are the car, and the parking. Without that, I’d gladly take public transport instead, but it’s HIS choice to drive – so we do.
And he does suggest that we go out for walks and do things more often than I do. So he does end up paying more in the end, but in terms of food/rent, he gives me a weekly food bill and I get half the rent cheque to pay at the end of the month, plus the splitting of expenses..
Great post. Inspired me to write up what we did.
If you make roughly the same amount of money, I don’t think this is a big deal. But with big income disparities, I think you need to think long and hard about how you would feel on both sides.
I'm the breadwinner in my family – I make roughly 4X what my BF makes and consequently shoulder much of the bills/expenses in the household. I don't feel resentful about the $$ part of the equation, but I do find shouldering my 60+ hour workweek PLUS expectations that I 'homemake' too much to bear. So we've had several conversations about that topic over our 6 years together. And it all works out because at the end of the day, we're making our way together and it's the together part that matters. Though I will say that my hard-and-fast rule of household responsibilities is that I deal with NO BUGS and NO CRITTERS> those are HIS responsibility.
That post is all well and good as long as you make roughly the same and they’re aren’t any problems.
Right before I moved in with my guy, I saw a Suze Orman and she reccomended you split bills by how much you make, so if you make 2x as much, you pay 2/3, your partner 1/3. At the time, I made three times as much as my partner. I calculated it all out. It worked great.
Then I lost my job, and he picked up all the bills. Then he started his own business and I picked up all the bills.
There’s a big difference between making 150 and 50, and making 60 and 90–we’ve done both. If you make a whole lot more, I think you should pay more. You’re NOT 50/50 roommates, you’re partners, at least that’s the way I always saw it.
I personally think it depends a lot on what stage your relationship is at, and how you view your partnership. If you are still just dating but living separately (even if you have a serious commitment to each other) you may see yourselves still more as individuals who each want full, separate control over their own money. In that case, I think a 50/50 system for splitting expenses is best for everyone, and then each person can do what they want with their remaining cash. I also think the 50/50 system works well for any couple who are earning roughly the same amount of money.
If, however, you see each other as a team or as family, then I believe it’s a better idea not to keep score over who earned what, but just view the total of what both parties bring in as one lump sum. Otherwise, if one person earns way less than the other, then they are not allowed to have as much fun as the other one – it’s like they’re worth less in the family because they don’t make as much money. And once you’ve merged finances in any way, you’re really agreeing to take care of each other and handle money together, so I feel like you should make sure everyone has about the same spending power as well. I would think that would avoid resentment, not create it. But maybe that’s just me!
She may have already considered this but here’s what I would probably try:
Trade off paying for dates. One time he pays. The next time she does. But the person who pays chooses the activity. There are a lot of really fun things that can be done for cheap or even free and if he’s a good romantic, knows her well, and does some planning those dates will probably be even more fun than expensive dinners and shows. And if she still wants to go to places out of his budget, she can so long as she pays.
But if that doesn’t work out because there is still money-guilt, then maybe it’s time to rethink the relationship or at least try some counseling if they really still want the relationship to work.
Great post. My BF makes a lot more money than me but we split the bills pretty much equally. When we go out together or pay for groceries we take turns. Sometimes we have gone out and will pay for ourselves. Other times (like last night) he paid for dinner so afterward I paid for our alcohol when we went to the beer and wine.
If you both are open about money and your expectations there shouldn’t be any issues. If one is feeling resentful or one is taking advantage then there is a problem. Open communication is the key.
I think people just need to talk about it if they feel resentful, and work out something together. I am somewhat a fan of paying for large things (living expenses) as a percentage of income, though I don’t do anything that percise. When I’m married, I’d expect to have mostly joint accounts with close to equal amounts of free money.
It is sort of like taxes–if you have a lot of money, should your tax rate be higher than someone who doesn’t? Hmm, ok, maybe relationships aren’t like taxes…
I don’t have the answer to this…but I will admit that my bf lived with me for a few months before he went into grad school and I paid the rent…yep, all of it. He paid for internet and probably 3/4 of the food. However, it was my apartment, and he was just staying for a few months.
I would probably also be annoyed that my bf required me to pay 2/3 of everyhting when he was clearly having 1/2 of the fun. I don’t have any rules about this.
Right now, my bf and I are on even footing. He’s in graduate school and so am I…so we’re both broke. We’re going to struggle to afford flights to see each other…
I’m babbling and I have no answer.
Inspired by this post, I’ve written my own views down.
My sister Kim has come up with a pretty brilliant approach to dating and living expenses. She and her boyfriend Mike have a joint checking account and joint savings account. The theory is that each month, they will equally contribute to the checking account. Expenses like rent, utilities, groceries, etc. will come from that account. At the end of each month, whatever has not been used in the checking account moves to the savings account, which will be used for things like vacations.